MF 50HX with water in transmission

[jflarin]

Hi,

I have a 1992-ish Massey Fergusson 50 HX (serie S). There is water that must leak into the transmission because when it is cold (-5 to -10 Celcius), the metal mesh filter of the suction side of the transmission (and steering) pump gets clogged with ice and there is no longer any power to the transmission and steering. At that point, I have to remove the filter, clean it (heat it) and put it back on the suction. Sometimes it works for a day, but last winter it works for 1 or 2 minutes.

Of course changing the oil in the whole transmission will work, but not for a long time. I did that a few times. I also drain some water by slacking the 3 screw on the drain cup under the transmission. Normally there is a little bit of clear water that drains there, then I retighen it . Still, it is not enough to keep the oil clean.

I'd like to get to the root cause of the problem. My only guess is that the water is coming from the top, between the front window and the engine cover. Then it accumulates on top of the transmission and must then leak inside. So one thing I would like to try is to split the transmission in 2 at that point and redo the seals.

No that does not look like an easy job. Anybody has an advice on how I could proceed (or how to avoid my problem)?

Thank you,

jf

 

[AussieChris]

I would try the simple things first before splitting the cases. Is the dipstick a good snug fit in the top of the transmission? Also, where the filler neck goes in, is there no leakage there?

At one time, I got a lot of water in the hydraulic tank of my 50HX. It turned out to be getting in past a bad gasket on the filler cap. I only mention this because that cap is identical to the one on the transmission. But the transmission one is more protected from rain with the floor plates and cover.

The only other thought is if there is a transmission oil cooler that is part of the radiator. I can't remember if that is the case on the 50HX but it could be a source of water getting in.

Good luck with it.
Chris.

 

[jflarin]

Is the dipstick a good snug fit in the top of the transmission? Also, where the filler neck goes in, is there no leakage there?

At one time, I got a lot of water in the hydraulic tank of my 50HX. It turned out to be getting in past a bad gasket on the filler cap. But the transmission one is more protected from rain with the floor plates and cover.

The only other thought is if there is a transmission oil cooler that is part of the radiator. I can't remember if that is the case on the 50HX but it could be a source of water getting in.

Chris.

Hi Chris,

Yes the filler is technically protected by the cab, but it is still close to where the snow can get in. I'll check that.

I look in the part book on the web and yes there is a oil cooler in the front. I'll check my actual backhoe has the cooler actually.

Thank you for the tips,

jf

 

[Jim Kennedy]

Hi jf, would you be able to tell me where on the web or give me the link to the parts book for the M/F 50HX "Series S". I have the operators manual in PDF if that's any help to you.
Jim.

 

[jflarin]

Hi jf, would you be able to tell me where on the web or give me the link to the parts book for the M/F 50HX "Series S". I have the operators manual in PDF if that's any help to you.
Jim.

Hi Jim,

I go to http://www.agcopartsbooks.com . This auto-redirects to http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx?region=NorthAmerica . I don't know where you'll be redirected, but let's assume it will work the same for you.

Then there is a Guest User: on the right with 'view books' button. Click on the 'view book' button.

Then there is a Search by Model box and All Brands drop box. I select Massey Fergusson in the drop box, return to Search by Model and type '50 hx' (without the quote, the space is important if my memory is right). You then get 3 choices: Series S, Series T and Loader. I click on the Series S.

Then you can click the section you want to see.

Regarding the operator's manual, that is interesting, I'll send you a private message.

Thanks,

jf

 

[jflarin]

More news, with pictures now.

Hi everybody,

I tried to investigate the problem with the suggestion I received. Here are the pictures (everybody likes pictures!)

First the cooler on front. Yes the oil goes in the cooler right after the steering controller:

There is no oil leaking out and this would be a pressurized section. Still I added a gasket along the red lines.

Here is the filler from the cabin:


Here is what I see looking down:

I don't see a gasket around the filler. It is soldered to the top plate, so no gasket there. And as already mentioned, this is pretty protected. I will look for water there (snow melting off my boots?) All the screws are tight.

Here is where the snow accumulates between the cab and the hood:

One of the bolt was slack, I tightened it. I added some silicon along the black line, just in case the water could leak through the joint.

Going down on the size I saw an access point; I opened it put some liquid gasket and retorqued it back in place. Let's pray it helps.

After doing all that, I put back some oil. The steering work, but the transmission does now go in forward or backward. :Banghead

I guess I'll have to investigate if the solenoid works. I hope it is an electrical problem (which I can fix).

Thank you for watching!

jf

 

[jflarin]

How to debug transmission hydraulics? how to measure pressure?

Finaly there was a open on the yellow-purple wire. I located the open in the bulkhead connector near the left foot (where the wires go from inside to outside). I checked that the 2 solenoid were clicking when I apply 12V directly and yes they click.

I put back everything together and it still doesn't move. That wire problem could have explained why the reverse did not work, but not the forward direction in any ways.

It is not the disengage buttons. Even with the emergency bypass, nothing happens. I guess I'll have to start testing hydraulics.

Right after the steering pump, there is a plug (circled in red below):


I am guessing that this port can be used to measure the output pressure of the pump. Can anybody confirm? Also, what kind of pressure should I expect to see there?

Also, there is a secondary output that goes through the metal pipe down to the bottom of the transmission. Anybody knows what is the use of that line?

Thank you for any advice,

jf

 

[Tinkerer]

Perhaps you could the remove the transmission filler cap and apply a small amount of compressed air into the tube and listen for air escaping from the leak. Remove the dipstick and plug the tube securely.

 

[jflarin]

Finally I found the solution to my trouble. It was the solenoid on the top of the transmission. It was jammed. I unjammed it with a screwdriver and verified it operates correctly with 12V.

Thank you for your support.

Regarding the compressed air, I am going to consider that to find the leak. Thank you for the tip.

jf