Major problem with project, Lawyer recomendation?

[suladas]

Thanks for the advice.

I tried a small independent lawyer at the start, and without going into too much detail, he didn’t really help at all and worsened the situation. I have reason to believe he may have been threatened to leave our case alone.

I’m looking at some other firms now but this part of it is all new to me. Others who dealt with same client have told me to prepare for a possible 10 year case before I get anything out of it.

I did add good mark-up to the project when we bid it. Being a smaller company I don’t have near the overhead of some of the bigger guys. I’m aware of my costs and theres and often try to match just under their pricing and take the in between which is up in that 20-30% mark.

Quantities I have no issue with, I got paid for about 1/3 extra what we bid on. Just got no relief as far as timeline extension to allow for the extra, no force account work (there was a lot) and they never pro-rated the lump sum items to reflect the increase in work.

We‘ve been through the full dispute process on 3 disputes now. Each one they took no fault in the situation, basically sent me a letter stating so every time it was their turn to respond, and they forced me to sign an agreement waiving the first two disputes or they would have charged about an additional $50,000 in LD’s for a period of time in the spring when the min rep wanted us to start but I told him I wanted to start later because the ground water table was too high. And the third dispute they were late responding to one of the notices, I called them on it and they carried the dispute on. I was late responding to one of their notices and they threw the dispute out. So no chance of easy mediation there.

Very bad situation but I do feel I have some things going for me on this one. The waiver I signed to drop the first two disputes was another one. I was looking at it today and they broke contract on that one. I asked for a supplemental agreement for a change of work order as I am entitled to in the contract, I got an improper response back stating they would give me 1 day extension and to charge force account. I disagreed and asked for the change of work order. The following spring, the supplemental agreement to drop both disputes and a 1 day timeline extension is what they came up with and had me sign.

It they were extras, did you get any sort of change order or PO for them? If not you're pretty much screwed. And even if you got it in writing they agreed to the extras, unless they were done in a way stipulated in the contract for extras you're pretty much screwed for getting paid for them too. With any big company I would never ever touch a extra I expect to be paid for until I have a PO in writing.

Were these dispute processes just minor one's over the course of the project?

Honestly it sounds like a mess and it won't be cheap for lawyers to sort out. Generally speaking if the start time is in the contract and you refuse it's on you, even if you have a reason like high water table, you can warn them it's not a good idea but if they want you there, you will be screwed for the delays if you don't.

If there is anyway to do it, I would probably just go binding mediation route.

 

[Welder Dave]

Not everyone disregards letters from lawyers. In regards to your truck they didn't have a defence. How are they going to answer the question, did you have a signed contract before you started work? Lawyers fee's are based on experience. Not many but not all of them are bad. In the OP's case he needs an experienced lawyer. In most cases the senior partners in big well known law firms will be very good at what they do. If you have a pretty clear cut case they may assign a junior lawyer or even an articling student.

 

[suladas]

Not everyone disregards letters from lawyers. In regards to your truck they didn't have a defence. How are they going to answer the question, did you have a signed contract before you started work? Lawyers fee's are based on experience. Not many but not all of them are bad. In the OP's case he needs an experienced lawyer. In most cases the senior partners
in big well known law firms will be very good at what they do. If you have a pretty clear cut case they may assign a junior lawyer or even an articling student.

Problem is people lie to suit their best interests and so do lawyers, he would just say it was a verbal contract, flimsy argument but people try it. The reason why the one on their own can do a lower rate is they aren't paying for fancy office space those downtown offices aren't cheap, and specifically to the guy I use he is semi-retired and isn't crazy money hungry like many.

A student at law is an awful idea unless it is a very very simple case which this is not, they will absolutely get torn apart by any good lawyer and using a student at law sends a message that you are trying to cheap out on representation.

 

[Welder Dave]

I said it depends on your case as to how much experience you need. I had a student help me in a clear cut case regarding brakes on a truck. Truck was sold with an inspection and advertised as having brand new brakes. Brake pads were new but drums were 110% worn with one of them almost splitting in two. I sued the seller and the shop. They settled out of court. Shop never pulled a wheel as is customary in a CVP inspection and was very worried they could lose their inspection license. The seller had a high priced lawyer. I took the cracked drum to the court house for a pre-trial meeting before a judge. When I opened the box and they saw the drum, their jaws dropped! I knew the owner of the shop that fixed the truck and he would have testified in court for me. I kind of think he was hoping to. His shop was licensed to do CVP and school bus inspections.
It is customary in the repair business to have signed work orders. No signed work and then why did they start working on the frame too? People do lie in court but good judges will see though it. I can see a $500 job maybe being a verbal agreement but not a repair for several thousand $$$ and just proceeding with everything. People can ignore letters but pay $25 and file a statement of claim and they can't ignore it. Some people still try to act tough but I've seen it a couple times where they settle the day before or even just before they walk into court. Does the shop really think they can fool a judge with?

 

[Zewnten]

Get a lawyer from a big firm. Preferably one known to handle these type of cases. You talking to people who've been in this so who are they using for representation?

 

[AzIron]

Not for nothing but if you signed an agreement that violated the law you still signed it

It's been my experience and none with the Canadian government that if you agreed to what's in contract then you are still beholden to it

I am in total agreement with crane op eronious word salad usually gets a pass from me I would never take a Gov contract without a lawyer in the states if your low bid then you have some room for contract negotiations because they are compelled to use low bid by law

If my primary customer base develops a buissness model that ends in a court room on every job I am either buying a law firm or finding a different customer base cause that risk is not worth the reward unless its 100 percent over cost markup and then I still not sure

Sorry dude I wouldn't wish it on anyone but if you spend your energy going forward with re building your business your o
Probably going to get farther faster than chasing this busted wagon on a dead horse as you said your really limited to cost involved in job not opertunity cost or the stack of dominos that it ate and if you win only then can you go for legal fees your playing russian rullet with what you got left

 

[Welder Dave]

There aren't enough details but gov't. contracts can be messed up just as easily as any other. When you're talking hundreds of thousands spending a couple thousand to have an experienced lawyer review it could be money well spent especially if the mistakes are glaring and could potentially bankrupt you. It could also give you piece of mind that you did nothing wrong.

 

[suladas]

Not for nothing but if you signed an agreement that violated the law you still signed it

It's been my experience and none with the Canadian government that if you agreed to what's in contract then you are still beholden to it

I am in total agreement with crane op eronious word salad usually gets a pass from me I would never take a Gov contract without a lawyer in the states if your low bid then you have some room for contract negotiations because they are compelled to use low bid by law

If my primary customer base develops a buissness model that ends in a court room on every job I am either buying a law firm or finding a different customer base cause that risk is not worth the reward unless its 100 percent over cost markup and then I still not sure

Sorry dude I wouldn't wish it on anyone but if you spend your energy going forward with re building your business your o
Probably going to get farther faster than chasing this busted wagon on a dead horse as you said your really limited to cost involved in job not opertunity cost or the stack of dominos that it ate and if you win only then can you go for legal fees your playing russian rullet with what you got left

Not how it works here, and that's why any written agreement has clauses like "if any term in this agreement is found to be non enforceable then the rest of the contract is still enforceable". Also here government bids aren't required to take the lowest, they always say they are not required to accept the lowest, can reject any bid they want, or reject them all.

 

[Welder Dave]

They even stipulate the lowest or any bid may not be accepted. I saw somewhere where the bids were way higher than they imagined so they changed the contract and put out another tender. The job my neighbor bid on they were worried if they were too close to a more established firm they would lose the job. It was the biggest contract he ever bid on up till then.

 

[f311fr1]

This is why I will never do any government work

 

[Welder Dave]

Not all gov't. work is bad just the same as non gov't. work. Some contracts are well written and straight forward.

 

[Acoals]

Low bid is not necessarily required in US Gov contracts either.

 

[Welder Dave]

Sometimes a higher bid would be awarded because the contractor had special equipment the others didn't have or they put a valued added service in their bid. An example could be crushing concrete on-site to be reused/sold instead of hauling it away. I know of 1 job where this was done and the crushed concrete was used as base material in the new development. I'm not sure if the bid was higher but it did save money for the new development.

 

[Acoals]

You can lose a bid for being too low, at least on Federal contracts. Everyone else is 100k and you come in at 45k, you most likely will lose the bid because they deam it as implausible.

 

[Welder Dave]

Or you don't have enough experience.