LS 170 new holland

[cliffg50]

Me again now that I fixed the short in my ls 170 new holland it is now shutting down and the hydrostatic light comes on it will start again and run for short periods of time from seconds to hours. Anyone have any ideas ? By the way this forum helps me more than new holland dealers. Keep up the good work. Cliff

 

[frogfarmer]

Sounds like a charge pressure sender is going out. Given you just fixed an electrical problem I would also check the wiring and connections. The charge pressure senders are common for going out.

 

[Cappy29]

Frogfarmer is right on about the sending units on these things. I posted the location of the sensor on the other thread, hope that helps you get your unit going. As for your NH dealer's not helping you out, I would hope that they are just not getting the right people talking to you. This issue your having should easily be solved with a three minute phone call to the right person at the dealership. It is their job to work with you, not for, or againts you. Hope you have good luck with your repair. Cheers

 

[cliffg50]

cappy 29, my dealership used to help but due to the economy we no longer have one within 75 miles and the ones I've talked to don't like to share to much info.So if you could let me know where this sensor is located it would be deeply appreciated. Thanks Again Cliff

 

[Cappy29]

Tha sensor is in the back right corner of the machine. Raise and losk the booms in the air. Open the rear door, lift the top screen and remove the right side panel. Just below the hydraulic filter housing there is a brass fitting that should have a sensor threaded into it. The old senders had a brass base with a black plastic point crimpped to the brass. If there is any oil residue or oily dirt on that sensor it has likely failed. The new style sensor has a brass base with a round plastic formed to the brass. If you disconnect the wire going to the sensor the warning light should not come on. I don't recommend running your machine without the sensor for long because they have safety circuits for a reason. The sensor is not expensive P#87036787. Good luck. Cheers

 

[cliffg50]

Thanks for all your help Cappy 29 if I can ever return the favor please feel free to ask. Cliff

 

[Cappy29]

No worries, Did this solve your problem?

 

[Randy88]

I've had problems like that and I ended up with a wire being bad and had to replace some of the harness that had problems, as it bent and twisted it would short out the system. I've also had problems with the switches, in my case it was the seat belt switch and also the seat switch was bad, ironically I've also had a kernel of corn lodged under the seat switch and every now and then it would lock wrong and keep the switch activated and drain the battery due to lights not going out on the dash. If its the sensor being bad then you can test that with an ohm meter, its been a while since I've done that but every time I tested them they ended up being good and not the problem. I've got a service manuals for a 565 but they work for the basics for my 190 as well. There's also a resistor in the line that has caused problems as well, it would heat up and kick the system out and shut it down as well, I'm thinking its in the fuse box on the back under the circuit breakers, I've had to replace that as well. Post as to what the problem was I'm curious as to what it was and what solved it.

 

[Cappy29]

These NH machines are well built machines as are most brands. they are also no different than other brands, They all break down no matter what colour they are painted.(that's why I still have a job) NH has their fair share of electrical issues, but 95% of them are quite easy to diagnose with just a little information and a couple of checks/tests. The reason Cliff should jump straight to that sensor is, it is easy to disconnect that wire and stop it from grounding. if the problem goes away, it is the sensor. If the light comes on while that wire is not touching anything, then there is a short to ground somewhere in the wiring harness. Anytime you are dealing with electrical problems, always check the easy things first then look deeper.(my theory, anyway) As for testing that sensor with an ohm meter, if the problem is intermitttant, so might the test results. As for the kernal of popcorn. That is a new one for me. I have thrown a lot of things out of the belly of skidsteers, but never had an electrical problem caused by popcorn. I did have a customer bring a machine to me because his open can of anchovies fell and he could not find them. Not a nice smell in the heat of summer after a few weeks of them ripening.

 

[Randy88]

It wasn't popcorn it was a kernel of field corn and it got in under the seat somehow and lodged in the seat switch and would keep the switch activated after getting off the seat every now and then and would drain the battery dead if you didn't notice it and the machine sat for a few days. I had about everyone I knew look at it and work on it and nobody came up with that one, my crew got tired of having a wet butt from sitting on a torn seat and we finally replaced the seat and found the problem, if a kernel gets up on top of the switch and sits just right it can't fall out and will get stuck in the switch and keep it on, dumbest thing I've ever had happen but it did and now I look there first. My new holland skid steers have caused a lot of electrical problems over the years but my crew likes to run them so I fight with the problems. We have service manuals to troubleshoot the problems but I've never had the machines shut down due to a mechanical problem, its always an electrical problem where the computer thinks there's something wrong with the machine and then you have to figure out what's not wrong and how come it thinks something is. I can honestly say I didn't think I've ever have to troubleshoot something that wasn't wrong before so I could run my machines and keep them running. Now its the other way around, the computers shut down the machine and you need to figure out why. There's a relay in the fuse box thats cause me a lot of grief over the years and for some reason its connected to the computer and if its not 100% that starves the computer of juice and will cause all sorts of problems with false readings and shut downs. I've wondered for years if all this is really necessary or not, we used to buy diesels so once you got them running they would stay running and now we hope the computer doesn't shut down a good running machine due to an electrical or computer problem which is worse.

 

[northernomad]

Cappy29, I just registered with the forum and am not familiar with the etiquette. My apology if I do offense by butt into this thread. But I am not sure if you will see my plea when I start a new thread. I think I have electrical problem with my old LS170 properly 95. Please help.

Symptom : When I turn the switch key to ON before START, it does a 1/2 second pre-ignition countdown and than switch to battery display with flashing indication of 4/5/6 Volts and than back to countdown. It goes back and forth continuously. When I start the engine anyway, it will only turnover the engine without it firing up. The most probable reason it will not fire up is no fuel.

So I disconnect the + wire to the fuel pump and measure the the voltage and sure enough, it fluctuate between 4/5/6 Volts just as the battery display indicated. The fuel pump never receives 12 V it needed. I also make sure the fuel pump work properly by give it 12 V and it does.

So what is behind the wire that drag down the voltage? I have no electrical schematic and am stuck.

This also explain why while I was able to run the machine, the battery display comes on and flashes with beeping sound while the voltage indication pumping all over the places from 14v to 7v. But the machine still runs.

Please help. The machine is stuck in an awkward place and I needs to move it away.

I don't means to exclude other helps except Cappy98. His prior helps inspire confident in my particular situation. Thanks to all helps in advance.

 

[Cappy29]

Thanks for the kind words. I understand what it is like to have a unit dead in the field and not knowing where to start looking for the problem. For this perticular problem, if I am correct, the dash display shows normal safety lights(seat/belt) and they function normally until you turn the key to the run position. Then the display shows little to no preheat cycle and then switches to show 5V.The unit cranks but will not start. This sounds like the EIC(dash) fuse is blown. There is a 5 amp fuse in the top right side of the cab. It should be the front one near the service/run switch. Check that fuse, i suspect it has failed. Now, if it has blown(shorted and looks black) you may have to look for the cause. I do not recommend installing a larger fuse in that place, as those boards are pricey(est $600) cheaper in the long run to find the problem than changing boards all the time. Let me know if this helps. Cheers

 

[northernomad]

Cappy29, thanks for the advice. I check the fuse today and it is not blown. If I can describe the symptom more concisely, this is what happened today.

When I entered the cab and put on the seat belt it appears normal. When key is turn to RUN, there is no glow plug count down. Battery indicator comes on with voltage at 5/6 v then it flip to Glow Plug indicator with control release solenoid activated (clicking nose at the foot paddle) than immediately returns to battery indicator. This switching process repeats itself in an irregular fashion mostly stay at battery indicator momentarily but never at glow plug indicator.

While it was switching like that, I pull off the 5A fuse. It will stop the switching and stay at battery indicator with Voltage drop to 0 in a second or two. Furthermore while it was flipping irregularly and I pull of the 7A fuse a head of the 5A fuse, the switching has a regular rhythm. Both of the fuses are functional. Without the 7A fuse, the switching is regular. With the fuse installed, the switching is irregular. Can I assume somewhere along the 7A fuse circuit there is a short? And what is on that circuit?

Finally, while it is flipping like that and I turn the key to START, the engine will crank and feels like to start up only once with the remaining tries just cranking without succeed in firing up (fuel pump receives insufficient voltage?). Any idea what to look? Thanks.

 

[northernomad]

To all the knowledgeable skid steer enthusiast, please comment on my plea and shed some light.

Another thought entered my mind while trying to the machine going. The 5A fuse circuit with fuel pump symbol had a stroke across it. If this is a fuel pump circuit, could the fuel pump solenoid fail. When I give the fuel pump a direct 12V and the fuel pump works, at the same time I hear clicking noise from the fuse box in the engine compartment. I did that with the key to OFF.

Where is that solenoid? Is it the Grey cube in the engine compartment fuse box? I try to ply it off but am afraid of breaking it. Needs special tool to remove it? Will malfunction fuel pump solenoid show start-up behaviour as I described in my prior postings? Please comment my thought. Many thanks.

 

[Randy88]

I haven't had a problem like that myself so I may not be of any help to you but is the battery good and putting out 12volts? Have you followed the wires to through the harness and do you have 12 volts at the different areas say for example the fuel pump and does it pump fuel if you hook it directly to the battery, you can tell by unchooking the line going to the injection pump and seeing if it spits out fuel or not. To me it sounds like a ground problem somewhere, they give weird results and can cause all sorts of problems, clean up all the grounds located thoughout the harness and also use jumper wires to ground different things together like the starter and fuel pump and stuff like that. Does the shop manual tell you anything about that kinda problem, I looked briefly in the shop manual for my lx 565 and didn't see anything like that in there. Sorry I couldn't be of any more help but of all the problems I've had I haven't had that one yet. On my 565 and ls190 the fuse panel is in the engine compartment just above the engine and all it takes is a thumb screw to unthread it and take the cover off.

 

[stovein]

northernnomad, I didn't see that you mentioned the service/run switch. Have you tried it in the service position? The two large relays in the engine bay box can be interchanged also to see if the problem is there. Right side is engine preheat and left is start. this is on 665 though it should be the same. The service/run switches do go bad too, loose terminals and so on. This is the information that helped me from another guy. "With the key on and the run service switch in the run position, seat belt bucked or jumped, seat switch closed and the key in the on position, the orange/white wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice from the seat belt/seat switch circuit. With the key in the start position, the white/lt green wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice coming from the post on the service/run switch. If these conditions are met, juice should flow across the interlock relay to the start relay via the white/Drk Blue wire, then to the starter solenoid via the red/white wire, to the EIC pin 10 via the white wire (not via the interlock relay) and the starter should kick. Power should also flow from the light blu/Orange wire to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump." The interlock relay is just above the start relay in the fuse box. It turned out my interlock relay was bad.

 

[Cappy29]

Nomad, Sorry for the delay in responding, it has been a crazy week all around and have not had a chance to research t his problem. I have a couple of questions to make sure I am looking at the right schematic. First, does this unit have a EIC(dash) that has an arrow, book and does not require any buttons to be pushed to unlock the hydraulics/parking brake? If so what colour is the border around the Display? (silver or Gold) they are different in their wiring. Have you tried the service/run switch? in the service position the unit bypasses all the operator safety system but will not allow any hydraulic movement. In this position will the unit crank or start? Have you put a load tester on your battery to test it under load. many batteries look good with a multimeter until they are loaded, then they drop to low voltage. Does the engine crank at normal speed? The fuse with the fuel pump with a line through it is for your fuel shutoff solenoid on your injection pump. If you are only getting 5/6 volts to that solenoid, it is not enough. Trace that wire back to find why it only gets low voltage. that wire goes from your solenoid to your start interlock relay to your fuse panel(5 amp fuel pump with line) to the keyswitch. Hope this helps. cheers

 

[tightgtp]

sounds to me like a bad ground or weak battery. don't overlook the easy stuff

 

[Phixdo]

5 amp fuse blows when brake button pushed

when i start my 185 it starts fine and the seatbelt and seat switches work fine they ave even been replaced but when i push the brake lock switch the 5 amp fuse in the fusebox blow and it quits. It started doing it after it as used for a little while then it got worse and worse til now it blows as soon as i hit the button. any suggestions.