Looking at old backhoes

[Birdseye]

I got a tip that a church had a non-starting backhoe (1985 2wd Case 580se) sitting on the extensive property that they wanted to be rid of. Apparently it had reached the end of its commercial use life (5000 hrs) and was donated (tax write-off) to the church by a member who ran a construction company. After falling into disuse and neglect, it had been offered to others but due to its issues was passed over and mostly sat for a 6+ years. We got it started and had it transported 120 miles to home.

So far, I’ve got $2500 into it and 60 hours. There is probably another $1000 in parts and 60 hours to get it leak free and mostly 98% functional. All the issues are as mentioned by others which means everything besides the Cummins engine internals, thankfully!

A scan thru Craigslist tells me that the market price for a working 2wd 30-40 year old backhoe is $7-10k, 4wd $10-14k. Not starting, no hydraulics... that’s where the ‘deals’ might be found. But, ‘deal’ is misleading because mostly it’s sweat equity, you trade a low purchase price for your time and resources as a mechanic and parts department which commercial outfits charge at $100-150/hr.

In my case I’m a slow, inexperienced ‘diesel mechanic’, so I figured my time is worth $40/hr. When I’ve finished I’ll have invested:
- 120 hours labor ($4800)
plus
- $3500 in parts and expenses
Which ends up right in that market range of $6-10k for a 35 year old 2wd backhoe.

Fortunately for us, due to high commercial labor rates and because these machines are relatively easy to fix and don’t require many specialized tools we can own one for home/farm use. Basically it’s a $10k asset that is only practical if you can do the repairs yourself. My guess is that there are hundreds or thousands of such machines in existence.

 

[Willie B]

I had one of these, a 320. Had a hell of a lot of fun with it. Think I paid $1800 for it.
Joe H

A fellow here bought one new, made his living with it for years. No trailer, he hooked the loader bucket over the tailgate of a single axle dump truck. He never replaced it, just "faded off into the sunset".
One day I found it laying on its side 3/4 mile from where he lived. He was dead at home. Autopsy said he died of a massive heart attack, he fell off in front of a rear tire, it ran over him & somehow wandered a very long way before it tipped over.

 

[Jshopes81]

It just drives me nuts how people can know that youre coming from a few hours away and cant give an accurate description. I couldve saved alot of time yesterday had i been given accurate information regarding these machines. Its almost as if they dont have a clue what theyre selling or they think ill just show up, not look at it, throw money at them and leave. We went through this with campers, but this is way worse than that couldve hoped to be.

 

[NH575E]

It just drives me nuts how people can know that youre coming from a few hours away and cant give an accurate description. I couldve saved alot of time yesterday had i been given accurate information regarding these machines. Its almost as if they dont have a clue what theyre selling or they think ill just show up, not look at it, throw money at them and leave. We went through this with campers, but this is way worse than that couldve hoped to be.

People don't care about your time or interests. I bought my machine off Ebay from 650 miles away. Asked the seller several questions and got nothing but lies for answers. I was told it had no leaks, 4WD worked, and brakes were good. He said it was a good old machine that was ready to work. It arrived spewing oil out one of the stabilizers, no 4WD, and no brakes. It wouldn't run for more than 5 minutes. Fuel tank was full of rust and lines were clogged. Thank goodness I was an auto tech for years so the transition to diesel mechanic wasn't too bad. He told me it needed an AC compressor. He failed to mention it was TOTALLY MISSING. He also said it only had 3000 hours on it. The tach face was broken and the hour meter had been pried to read 3xxx hours. Not too obvious. I would have rather seen 5000 hours and not had the tach damaged. I can't find a replacement anywhere.

He hasn't had any eBay activity in over a year but if you ever run across and ad by TractorKing54 be very careful. He didn't have many negs when I bought but several came about after. Some stories were way worse than mine so I guess I was lucky the engine wasn't blown up.

I still came out okay but I would have passed on buying had he been honest. I did get it way below what it would have been worth if all the answers were honest so I should have known it wasn't the deal being presented. I paid $12,500 for the machine and $1,250 for delivery. I haven't kept track but I suppose I have invested another $5,000 in parts. It still needs the brakes repaired but I have learned to get by without them and it gives me a good excuse to tell people it can't leave my property. The brakes are a bigger repair than I care to take on. A dealer north of me quoted $900 to reseal the pistons and another grand if if needed discs. In hindsight I should have had them pick it up but I was gun shy on people being truthful. Pretty sure I could never get my money back out of it but it still runs and I can still use it.

 

[westerner]

You better know your neighbors really well.

And we do. We have been neighbors for 20 years. We are both veteran tradesmen. He has seen my skills and operating philosophy. I have seen his.
Our agreement is no doubt rare. We have both been asked to loan plenty of tools to questionable co-workers.
I am truly thankful for the arrangement, and am ready and willing to follow the old line around here about "you break it, you bought it"

 

[Willie B]

I drove to the Canadian Border in New York to look at a Case 580M in good condition with some rust. In pictures it looked OK. I got there, it had battery charger connected, engine was warm. It was inside a building. There were two NEW buckets.
It had no floor at all. 1/3 of the flip up hood was missing entirely.
I asked if I could take it outdoors. He went utterly deaf! I finally opened the door & headed out. That's when I discovered it had no brakes at all. Attempting to use the front bucket as the braking system, I learned hydraulics were non functional also. Stabilizers would drop to the snow, but would NOT raise the tractor. None of the other hydraulics had power enough to lift the component, or swing. Steering did not work.

As I saw it, this machine was utterly dysfunctional. It was misrepresented. I'm always up for a project, but this was priced ready to work.

 

[Willie B]

And we do. We have been neighbors for 20 years. We are both veteran tradesmen. He has seen my skills and operating philosophy. I have seen his.
Our agreement is no doubt rare. We have both been asked to loan plenty of tools to questionable co-workers.
I am truly thankful for the arrangement, and am ready and willing to follow the old line around here about "you break it, you bought it"

I tried the "You have more free time than me. You break it, you fix it" Years back when he borrowed the tractor with bush hog. After he had it for a day he matter of fact said: "Let me know what I owe you for the exhaust. I wondered why it hadn't broken off. I pushed some big Oak branches with it."

I reminded him of our arrangement. He returned the machine with a vaguely similar muffler from NAPA. To make it sort of fit, he had to plumb it backward, & it flopped around loose instead of fitting.

I chalked it up to an expensive education. I ordered the correct exhaust & drove the 100 mile round trip to the dealer to pick it up.

Next round of readying to bush hog, I serviced the tractor, checked all fluids, tire pressure. I went to the house, and when I returned I was looking at the grill of the tractor from a distance. The hood was cockeyed! He had knocked it off its hinges.

He told me of driving 4 miles carrying a large marble slab for a doorstep. I realized this slab wouldn't fit in the loader bucket. Thinking about it, I knew what had happened. He had hooked a chain to the marble, and the other end to the bucket. Long chain, he drove with the bucket fully raised, the stone swinging like a wrecking ball.

5 hours labor later I was a wiser man with a less than perfect nose on my tractor. It no longer gets loaned.

 

[DaveA]

I thinsk the best way to find a good deal is. When you are out in the country driving. Back yard shop , when you see one sitting. ask the owner if he wants to sell. or run a ad in the paper or farm paper. wanted to buy loader back hoe in need of repair. the interner net seems to inflate prices I picked this one up, by advetizing in the farm paper, for $2000 and put a $400 rearend into it. hang in there, you'll find one just takes time and going off the usual path

 

[Birdseye]

I like DaveA’s suggestion to run a “working backhoe wanted, up to $xxxx, have trailer for quick removal etc“ ad. I see these ads all the time:
- signs on telephone poles or postcards in my mailbox saying “pay cash for houses any condition “

- cash for cars boats etc

The key to doing this is to let the owners know it’s going to be very easy to get rid of that yellow eyesore and have a stack of Benjamin’s in hand.

Best results may be had if you advertise in more affluent areas which is possible thru Craigslist . Doesn’t hurt to try.

 

[NH575E]

I have bought a couple of implements using WTB in the Craigslist Farm and Garden section. I've had a few jackass responses from them but ultimately got the implement I was seeking at the price I wanted to pay.

 

[Finca SDR]

Tinkerer, it's amazing how many new friends I have now that need hoe work...sure I'll just drive it 5 miles to your house to dig for you..I'm gonna have to borrow that insurance thing...Brilliant...

You can make money that way. It's what I do principally anymore.

 

[Finca SDR]

Sooo I know lotsa people already said 5k is too little probably. Not impossible just unlikely. I'm in another country now but look at the Craigslist and auctions listing just for comparisons sake and it looks like 10k is where some kind of decent machines start. And even then you've got to be mechanically inclined.

What's the checklist for old crapped out machines? Does it start, does it roll back and forth in all gears? Steer and stop? Do the hydraulic controls work? Do the loader and the tail pick up the machine at low revolutions, just above idle? Do the wheels spin in first when pushing against a stationary backstop? (that's the big one for me).

Hydraulic leaks, blowby, etc, all that's fixed or lived with easily enough.

Edit: oh yeah cracks or obvious sheety welds on important parts

 

[Birdseye]

Examples from Craigslist (it’s expected that most prices on Craigslist are 10-20% over final price)

@Jshopes81: This one looks good and is near Pittsburg, but you said you got one https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/leechburg-1975-ford-3550-backhoe/7243115164.html:


https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/leechburg-1975-ford-3550-backhoe/7243115164.html

Some examples of others:
Case 310 $1000
https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/d/miller-case-backhoe/7233397166.html

international $3500
https://topeka.craigslist.org/grd/d/auburn-2504-international-backhoe/7250641277.html

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd pass on non popular/rare models and one where someone tried to rebuild the engine but obviously didn't have the required skills. If the oil pump was done wrong, what else was done wrong?

 

[oarwhat]

I'd pass on non popular/rare models and one where someone tried to rebuild the engine but obviously didn't have the required skills. If the oil pump was done wrong, what else was done wrong?

Also I'm sure the bearings are now shot.

 

[Birdseye]

Well, there has to be some risk to go along with the reward !

Without a sufficient amount of knowledge , acquiring an asset is gambling....but with knowledge and experience it’s investing. Your assessment is correct, there are definitely some unknowns about the most important aspect of the core component ie oil & engine....but if one went and spoke to the fella it may be possible to get a better feel for the situation, and convince the owner that due to the risk , the price is more like $1200. It’s just the usual horse trading thing.

 

[TomD16]

4 years ago I bought a 580c to rescue it from rotting in a cornfield..Paid $2000, right place, right time, correct amount of beer...since then I've invested about $5000 in parts, but that includes rebuilding injection pump, shuttle, transaxle, all three backhoe, loader, and stabilizer control valves, all the cylinders, oem hydraulic pump, injectors, radiator, water pump, all the hoses, brakes, including master and slave cylinders, kingpins, steering cylinders, rewiring entire machine and the real expense, all the hydraulic lines..Damn near new-old machine... If you've got some mechanical aptitude and don't need a perfect machine right out of the gate, don't be afraid of a previously loved or more often abused older Case..parts are readily available and if you get "THE BOOKS" easy to repair...

I am currently in the middle of a similar rescue, but I got my 4500 TLB for FREE. Couldn't pass it up. Current parts include carburetor, fuel tank, clutch, radiator, and it will need tires. While accessible, I also did rear & front crank seals, water pump, hydraulic pump shaft u-joints, some gaskets & seals,... A guy one town over put it on Craigslist for free knowing it needed a clutch and did not want to deal with CL buyers beating him down. The pins & bushings look great; they are either replaced or have seen little use. Since it is 50 years old, my money is they have been replaced. I want to get a 12 inch trenching bucket for it as my 555B already has a decent size one installed.

 

[Jshopes81]

I tried getting ahold of the guy with the ford 3550 with the botched oil pump and he was non responsive

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/hilliards-massey-ferguson-backhoe-with/7231464179.html

Any thoughts on this guy? I know its got the swing motor, but the guy said it was just rebuilt, first time its been run since rebuild was today. Stephenson equipment in butler says they can get parts no problem on the old masseys. I passed on one massey that was pretty nice because parts were supposedly hard to find then a dealer nearby says thats not true. Any opinions on this one? Im not sure if 6 is high or not. I figure prices will go up after people get tax returns or coming into spring, how motorcycles do.

 

[DaveA]

Sooo I know lotsa people already said 5k is too little probably. Not impossible just unlikely. I'm in another country now but look at the Craigslist and auctions listing just for comparisons sake and it looks like 10k is where some kind of decent machines start. And even then you've got to be mechanically inclined.

What's the checklist for old crapped out machines? Does it start, does it roll back and forth in all gears? Steer and stop? Do the hydraulic controls work? Do the loader and the tail pick up the machine at low revolutions, just above idle? Do the wheels spin in first when pushing against a stationary backstop? (that's the big one for me).

Hydraulic leaks, blowby, etc, all that's fixed or lived with easily enough.

Edit: oh yeah cracks or obvious sheety welds on important parts

I jsut bought a realy nice 1982 case 580 E for $5000 needed shutle work . stuck $400 into shuttle. They are out there, you will find one if you are presistant. Was looking at a 680E with transmision problems. the guy would take $3200 for it . Problem is this is a pink elapahnt Thransmisions are hard to come bym and it was rebuilt before

 

[Tinkerer]

It has nasty looking patch on the backhoe boom.
Parts may be available from a dealer but they may be outrageously priced high.
I would keep looking elsewhere.