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Line Boring Systems
- Thread starter Williams Marine
- Start date
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Last but not least for sure.
Which Bar Package to start with?????
One side of my brain says to go with the larger package, spend the money now, be ready for more diversified work, especially since some of my work could be on marine type equipment. (I approach my rigging this way, can never have to many slings, shackles etc.) I admire the company's big or small that are tooled up, not having an excuse for why they can't get it done. Worked with Mammoet overseas, could not believe how well equipped they came to remote locations.
Had an "old school" hard a$$ superintended that would say, "I don't want to hear excuses, I want performance, now can you do the job or not? It's not personal, it's just work."
Would like to start out versatile, I can see adding longer bars maybe, and down the road an HPU. On the other hand I could save $5,560.00 (US) going with the lesser package and add as I need it. My fear is not being tooled up for a job that may come along. It's all a risk I know. Below is the breakdown of the two packages offered by York, "B" and "D" package.
Package B includes;
1 1/4" Bar package
-1 4 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
-1 6 foot bar
- 2 3" line-up cones
-2 mounting heads (1 in "D" package)
-2 bore weld interface (1 in "D" package)
-2 tail supports
-2 clamping collars
-1 calibration tool
-1 accessories tool box
2" Bar package
-1 3 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
-1 5 foot bar
-1 1 7 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
- 2 2-4" line up cones
- 2 4-6" line up cones
- 2 6-8" line up cones (none in "D" package)
- 2 8-10" line up cones (none in "D" package)
- 2 mounting heads (1 in "D" package)
-2 bore weld interface (1 in "D" package)
-2 tail supports
-2 clamping collars
-1 calibration tool
-1 6-10" bore adaptor (none in "D" package)
-1 accessories tool box
Thanks for your input, the beverages will be on me for the first few rounds!
Which Bar Package to start with?????
One side of my brain says to go with the larger package, spend the money now, be ready for more diversified work, especially since some of my work could be on marine type equipment. (I approach my rigging this way, can never have to many slings, shackles etc.) I admire the company's big or small that are tooled up, not having an excuse for why they can't get it done. Worked with Mammoet overseas, could not believe how well equipped they came to remote locations.
Had an "old school" hard a$$ superintended that would say, "I don't want to hear excuses, I want performance, now can you do the job or not? It's not personal, it's just work."
Would like to start out versatile, I can see adding longer bars maybe, and down the road an HPU. On the other hand I could save $5,560.00 (US) going with the lesser package and add as I need it. My fear is not being tooled up for a job that may come along. It's all a risk I know. Below is the breakdown of the two packages offered by York, "B" and "D" package.
Package B includes;
1 1/4" Bar package
-1 4 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
-1 6 foot bar
- 2 3" line-up cones
-2 mounting heads (1 in "D" package)
-2 bore weld interface (1 in "D" package)
-2 tail supports
-2 clamping collars
-1 calibration tool
-1 accessories tool box
2" Bar package
-1 3 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
-1 5 foot bar
-1 1 7 foot bar (not included in "D" package)
- 2 2-4" line up cones
- 2 4-6" line up cones
- 2 6-8" line up cones (none in "D" package)
- 2 8-10" line up cones (none in "D" package)
- 2 mounting heads (1 in "D" package)
-2 bore weld interface (1 in "D" package)
-2 tail supports
-2 clamping collars
-1 calibration tool
-1 6-10" bore adaptor (none in "D" package)
-1 accessories tool box
Thanks for your input, the beverages will be on me for the first few rounds!
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Which York driver-feeder?
Do they have a precision bar-to-bar coupling? Instead of 8ft bar, use 5&3ft bars coupled.
Instead using set up cones, you can make (cheaper) 4leg adjustable spiders...check on YouTube how the Italians center their bars.
When you're ready for big bores like stern tube bearings, send a pm.
Do they have a precision bar-to-bar coupling? Instead of 8ft bar, use 5&3ft bars coupled.
Instead using set up cones, you can make (cheaper) 4leg adjustable spiders...check on YouTube how the Italians center their bars.
When you're ready for big bores like stern tube bearings, send a pm.
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Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Thanks, will look into it.
MAUCOTOOLS new player, all the Italians borer manufactures are located in the same area of southern Italy.
https://youtu.be/LQefnY1uWbU Observe @ 5:40 sec precision bar coupling, I use a patented 3 screw coupling, each screw develops 10,000lbs, only requires 200lbs of force…IMO every bar should have female coupling INCLUDED @ no charge
Kaiser CKN connections @ 2:52 https://youtu.be/9qJKkiR-o5Y Aluminum reduces moments-of-inertia (light weight) most cutting tool manufactures have adopted aluminum tool bodies for large boring (4” to 120”diameter)...You want a light weight system, instead of solid steel boring bars...bars can be made using seamless tubing example 2.25” OD-1.250” ID reduces weight by 31% giving up 9.8% bending (deflection) strength. 4140B heat treated, tempered etc, case hardened to 58-60HRC and hard chromed (hard chroming reduces the coefficient of friction, lowers tendency to stick-slip in bearings & spindle) last step precision ground…
Example of poor chip control https://youtu.be/iSmSkoKUPiM
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If York generally keeps longer bars in stock for purchase (Or rent?) then I would opt for the smaller package to get started. No matter what you'll never have everything you need to do every job that comes along, being able to acquire what you need in a couple days should usually suffice I would think.
On construction equipment I use 1ea bar 78" long for 85% of the jobs.
York, excessive extra bar length causes whpping, that ceases vibration-chattering.
Look @ Thompson 60 Case Precision line shafting, they can drill & tap tool bit holes to spec before hardening.
Instead of Calibration tool, all that is required is a dial indicator with hardened flat anvil & magnetic base.
Upgrade to HPU 10Hp not quite $25k, hydraulic 5-10Hp is not recommended for use with 4-14ET carriage assembly because the 2 support guide bars twist.
York, excessive extra bar length causes whpping, that ceases vibration-chattering.
Look @ Thompson 60 Case Precision line shafting, they can drill & tap tool bit holes to spec before hardening.
Instead of Calibration tool, all that is required is a dial indicator with hardened flat anvil & magnetic base.
Upgrade to HPU 10Hp not quite $25k, hydraulic 5-10Hp is not recommended for use with 4-14ET carriage assembly because the 2 support guide bars twist.
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
The calibration tool is part of the package. It looked cheap to me, I thought I would not use it due to its look and feel.
RayF
Senior Member
For bores up to 8 inch train yourself to size bores with Moore and Wright inside calipers. You can feel them in to be spot on for size and its much faster than farting around with dial gauges and all the other hi tech rubbish they want to sell you.
I think Steve Loving? posted photos in your' thread or started his own showing calipers. Making calipers was a apprenticeship project, draw filing forever, heat treating etc...I dropped the bar on my right hand breaking couple fingers then had to purchase digitals until healing was over, couldn't get the FEEL with swollen fingers!
Well okay I use Jap spring tensioned calipers, but I still use dial indicator to measure tool advancement if I am using cutter bit holders without built in calibration dial or non-threaded tool ports.
WM: B&D boring bars have drive keyways, you don't need with York driver-feeder...Tail support bearings are self aligning spherical bearings you can purchase from any industrial outlet approx $35.00 ea instead of $117.00 ea 2.25" diameter...
Watch York's promo video https://youtu.be/nNX74S_VsIE @ 0:10 mini cut @ 0:16 mini cut @ 0:22 lousy surface finish @ 1:42 still stating Apr 2013 you can use hydraulic motor with 4-14ET carriage...every cut shown taking more DOC is in non welded mild steel @ 2:07...Support bearings @ 4:00 you'll have to always weld on brackets...@ 4:19 boring bar damaged from scarf & fretting at drive connection...
Reconsider using York, cut a deal ELSA get their distributorship for North West US
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Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
York thru bar measuring kit. Had the opportunity to use it while running the equipment. The tooling in the kit seems to be well made unlike their cutting tool adjustment gizmo. York selling point is you retract,insert the gage into a tool port next to the cutting tool, let it expand, lock it, remove and the measure with your calipers. Then adjust for your next cut.
Ray F or others to you think this kit is worth the money? ($500 US) It looks good durning the dog and phony show, but I have concerns of it being one more expensive tooling to keep track of, small gage's that drop in the mud,dirt or worse the bilge of a vessel. If anyone has this kit please jump on in and let me know how it works for you.
Have a good feeling where you pro's stand on this tooling, just picking your brain is all, thanks.
Ray F or others to you think this kit is worth the money? ($500 US) It looks good durning the dog and phony show, but I have concerns of it being one more expensive tooling to keep track of, small gage's that drop in the mud,dirt or worse the bilge of a vessel. If anyone has this kit please jump on in and let me know how it works for you.
Have a good feeling where you pro's stand on this tooling, just picking your brain is all, thanks.
RayF
Senior Member
For bores big enough I use an inside mike with a 1/4 inch leg through the tool holder hole in the boring bar. You have already checked thag with an outside mike and know exactly what its reading. You can use that i/s mike for all your measuring. Using an expandable gauge,not being 100% sure you got it right,then measuring with verniers that are good for 2 thou. Not for me. For small bores as I said I like quality i/s spring calipres set to an o/s mike. You can feel to the 1/2 thou and they are quick. With practice its easy to estimate how much more to come out and then tap the cutting tool out with an allen key. You can easily feel the tool move out a thou at a time with your finger on the side of the tool. Another good thing is your client is seeing production, not taking time between cuts fooling around.
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ray, wish I was a little closer to your neck of the woods. Have only made it to Auckland in my travels.
RayF...making multiple cut & try boring passes is ‘wasting time & farting around’, OEMs Cat, Liebheer, Komatsu, Case blah, blah use diametral pre-settable cutting tool holders to eliminate time wasting cut & try machining…Pre-set tool holders were designed for line boring bar usage over 100yrs ago, those same basic tool holders are still used today in manual & CNC HBMs, machining centers & are directly adaptable for use with portable boring machines. Requires slipping the bar into the spindle & support bearing
WM, open pdf, and teach yourself ref page 15 Misalignment Errors…
https://www.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/pdf/E4329_QuickGuide.pdf
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RayF
Senior Member
Thanks for that. I've been wondering why I've been a failure as a line borer all these years:bash
You are welcome // I do respect your’ tenaciousness using Mk1s @ 3Hp starting off, but lots of extra bustin your a$$...
Know what happened to spammer's forum click http://www.lineboring.org
CNY Bore
New Member
I have the snap bore gage that came with my BRS system . It works fine but I've learned that it takes a light touch and you should rotate back and forth before you tighten gage ! For the heavy cost they should have hardened ends !!!
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Thanks CNY for your useful info, please jump in and add anything else.
How long have you had your BRS? What made you go with BRS?
I'm assuming you have read through RayF's thread and also TomV's, great information in both not to mention inspiring work.
How long have you had your BRS? What made you go with BRS?
I'm assuming you have read through RayF's thread and also TomV's, great information in both not to mention inspiring work.
CNY Bore
New Member
It definitely helps to have access to a machine shop when doing line boring ! Don't forget you'll also need a hollow body enerpac to push the bushings in your repaired bores . I've swithed to acme 1"-8 all thread for pulling bushings in .
WM, excellent video of 'farting around' https://youtu.be/0kNoiLLz9EY skip ahead to 6:00 using 2 plunger snap gauge; no way is the operator getting a accurate measurement...$10.00 spring calipers are more accurate and faster to use.