Komatsu D65e-6 Questions

[jasonharville]

Hi everyone,

I see there are some Komatsu dozer enthusiasts/experts on this forum so I have a few questions I hope someone can answer. I'm going to look at a d65 this week and I'm already growing a bit concerned by lack of information and parts availability online. Despite that, I see some positive endorsements on this forum for the D65e-6 series and the price definitely seems like a good deal for the one I'm looking at. I'm going to add some pictures but hoping someone can answer the following questions:
*Can anyone tell the year by the model serial in the picture below?
*I'm seeing some listings online for D65e-6b that claim to be late 80's/early 90's models? Were they really produced that recently? Most D65e's seem to be late 70's to early 80's.
*Will a Komatsu dealer be able to sell me a service manual for this model? I'm not seeing any listed on ebay atm.
*Any typical failure points on these machines I should be looking for when I test drive aside from normal and/or do you spot any major red flags from pics? (yes, I know there are some grousers and rock guards to replace ;-) )

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Excited to be a forum member! I'll defintely be purchasing some iron soon whether its this machine or not!

 

[Junkyard]

I've done a fair amount of work to a D65 a few years newer than that one. I will tell you that komatsu parts are HIGH! Worse than Cat. Undercarriage and the like can be found aftermarket. If it's gotta be a genuine part that isn't aftermarket prepare to get a rude awakening. It doesn't look terrible, price reasonable? It's hard to beat older Cat iron, excellent parts availability and fair pricing with Cat classic. Plus info wise it's hard to beat Cat for everything you need. If you like it look at all the fluids, hours, etc. There has to be a million threads on here about what to look for on a used machine. It's the typical balance of money, anticipated useage and tolerance for repairs!

Dealer for a manual with be outrageous. Keep looking at EBAY. I got my D65EX-12 manual in PDF for like $12.00. I'll have to look for the site I got it from.

Junkyard

 

[jasonharville]

The dozer is listed for $13k which is $4-6k cheaper than most of the listings I'm finding for this same model in my area. It also has the root rake which I'm going to be needing. To respond to your statement, I have a pretty high tolerance for repairs as I can't seem to talk myself into buying anything with less that 50% surface rust. As for anticipated usage, I just bought 70 acres and will shortly be selling about 30 acres of the timber. In this clearing I will have a fair amount of dirt to move (Initial guestimate is 2000 cubic yards) for a pond dam and will also be gradually cleaning up and clearing the rest of the clear cut area into pastureland. I know from reading this forum that most will suggest an excavator for the stump removal, but I'm only planning to immediately remove 3 to 5 acres of stumps for the first pasture. I figure a dozer is going to be the best single machine to handle both the gradual land clean up/clearing AND to move the dirt for the pond dam. Of course I really have no concept of whether this d65 will easily handle my stumps which will average about 8 inches in size in mostly clay soils. I do know from watching other land clearing projects that if I'm patient enough to wait 1-2 years most of these smaller stumps will rot enough to be drum chopped/disked in....so that is also an option.

As for parts, I can tolerate higher parts prices as long as the parts are actually available. Especially if the more common wear items are available at more reasonable prices from aftermarket suppliers.

Here is the general layout of the project. The red is the area is the 30 acre timber harvest. Pond site outlined in blue. For reference, the line representing the pond dam on this image is about 160 feet long. I plan on pushing most of the dam fill down hill from the small knoll/ridge to the west of the dam site.

Am I being overly ambitious for a 30 yr old dozer?

 

[Junkyard]

D65 will handle the stumps without any problem. Also, 2000 yards or even 20,000 isn't out of the question with that size machine if you have the time and the push isn't that far. I think most everything is still available one place or another. For grins call the nearest dealer with S/N and see what all they can get. Try some random stuff like cylinder seal kits, radiator hoses, maybe a hydraulic pump or turbo. It's an ideal size machine for what you want to do and price isn't terrible. I'm more of a mechanic than operator but I've been around it a long time so I have a fair idea of what works and what doesn't. How far away is nearest dealer?

To give you an idea on parts. We did upper and lower radiator hoses from komatsu and they were $500 or so if memory serves. Seal kit for track tensioners was around $150 each side. Funny thing is aftermarket front idler was $830, genuine komatsu was $1150. Not terrible in that instance. Also, be aware that they use their own fittings, they look like regular JIC but the angles are a bit different. Keep that in mind should you have to make a hose.

Junkyard

 

[jasonharville]

Thanks Junkyard. Nice to hear from someone that has been under the hood on these machines. I went to look/drive this morning. Definitely going to need 4 or 5 new shoes. It also had almost no left breaking and seemed to require break application to turn either direction. I was under the impression steering clutches should alone should affect direction but maybe that is only under load? The two big concerns i had were an apparent fuel leak on either side of the head and some noticable fluid loss underneath it. Anyone familiar with either of these leaks? Pics attached.

 

[Junkyard]

Leaks out the bellypan can be a number of things. It should steer via the clutch whether it's under a load or not. It would be a gradual turn but you should feel it release the one side and veer that way. Tight turns are where the brakes come in. Sounds like they're working to some degree. If it's been sitting long sometimes things get stuck and it takes a little time to free up. Did it turn better or worse to one side or the other?

With a little luck leaks are most likely a hose or O-ring. kinda hard to tell what's up on the motor. Don't usually see fuel unless it's near a line of some sort or injector area and running down.

 

[jasonharville]

On the turning...i had somewhat confined space to test but it definitely responded better to tight hand turns than left. That makes sense bc the left brake was bottoming out and must have only been slightly engaging. I was only going 20-30 feet in either direction when testing the turns so it may not have been enough time for the turn to react. I felt like the reverse gear wasnt any faster in third than third going forward...but i see the specs only show 2mph difference so it may be a none issue.

The fuel leak did seem to be coming from some metal fuel lines in front of the head. I am no stranger to small engine leaks but the puddle doubled in size during the 5 minutes i ran it. Engine fired right up and sounded good so its obiously not bad enough to affect that.

 

[ATCme]

Thanks Junkyard. Nice to hear from someone that has been under the hood on these machines. I went to look/drive this morning. Definitely going to need 4 or 5 new shoes. It also had almost no left breaking and seemed to require break application to turn either direction. I was under the impression steering clutches should alone should affect direction but maybe that is only under load? The two big concerns i had were an apparent fuel leak on either side of the head and some noticable fluid loss underneath it. Anyone familiar with either of these leaks? Pics attached. View attachment 165266

Sounds like you got a blown head gasket. I am in the middle of doing all three heads on my d65-6. Don't know if it's a common problem but it is a pretty straightforward fix. I have also had zero problems finding parts for mine as well, certain parts are discontinued like the heads but there are a ton of used machines out here on the west coast. The price scare is real. Komatsu engine gasket kit 1300, aftermarket was 230, Komatsu blade mount pin 1200, used 850, fixing mine 100. Komatsu tranny cap 200, used 20. You get the idea.

 

[Cmark]

It may just need the brakes adjusting. Do you think the owner would let you tinker with it? It would only take a couple of minutes to do.

I'm looking at the discoloured paint around the head/block area. Notice it appears yellow towards the front and brown towards the back. I think it's been hot. Proceed with caution.

 

[jasonharville]

Good point on the discoloration. I hadn't noticed that. I'm thinking there might be a reason why this machine is several thousand cheaper than others around. I stopped by to take a look at this one as well today. Not a big fan of the cab unless I could get the A/C to actually work....but it has a better undercarriage and the shop manager claims he ran it for 2 years on his farm without issue. Just wish it had a rake.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/11130197/1979-komatsu-d65e-6

 

[Twisted]

Finding parts now days isn't an issue. My closest Komatsu dealer is three hours away but I rarely use them because of price gouging. There are a couple others farther away that carry genuine, aftermarket and used. I have accounts with them and parts are at my door the next day.

As Cmark stated brakes are probably out of adjustment but that engine looks awful fishy. They aren't too bad of a machine to work on.

 

[jasonharville]

Finding parts now days isn't an issue. My closest Komatsu dealer is three hours away but I rarely use them because of price gouging. There are a couple others farther away that carry genuine, aftermarket and used. I have accounts with them and parts are at my door the next day.

As Cmark stated brakes are probably out of adjustment but that engine looks awful fishy. They aren't too bad of a machine to work on.

thanks I am on my way back this morning to get another look I'm going to try to find the fuel leak and see if I can adjust the brakes.

 

[jasonharville]

Ok, I got to tinker more on this dozer today. The brakes adjusted just fine and it definitely steered better after adjustment. It still didn't seem to change direction with just a clutch release...brakes always had to be applied. I also removed the floor pan and found that most of the rear end leak was coming from a pipe at the top which I think will be easy to fix.

Now for the tricky part. The engine fuel piping does not match the NH220 engine parts diagrams at all. After looking around I am fairly certain it has the NT855 b/c of the u shaped fuel lines connecting between each head. (See Pic below part #29). On one hand this concerns me because this does not appear to be standard equipment for this dozer. On the other hand, the parts for the NT855 appear to be way easier to come by. It also sounds like that fuel crossover is a common fuel leak area and fairly easy fix. Anyone ever seen an 855 in the d65e?

 

[jasonharville]

I ended up buying this dozer. Just wanted to circle back and say thanks for the feedback and tips on what to look out for. I actually had a bit of a scare when the hauler dropped her off. I could see the driver struggling a bit as it came off of the ramps. He appeared to be wrestling with the steering controls and brakes and getting zero response from the machine. After several attempts, he climbed off and told me he couldn't get it to steer, but that it had been working fine when he picked it up. I jumped on and gave it a try and confirmed something was indeed wrong. I started to go into panic mode because the machine was still about half way in the road and I couldn't get it to steer either way in the slightest. After about 10 trips back and forth alternating between 2nd gear and slamming the brakes I was finally able to rock the machine gradually to the side of the road. This was exactly the scenario I had been stressing about....get the machine home and it falls apart. So once clear of the road, I started frantically searching online and ran to the house to review the service manual I had purchased the night before. Once I had a grasp of how the steering pump/clutch system works, I came to the conclusion that I was not getting pressure to the steering clutches for some reason. I eventually found the bleed screw at the top of the filter housing and decided to see if their was air in the lines. Cracked the screw, started her up, and after about 8 seconds of hissing I got fluid at the bleed screw. Tightened it back down and tested steering......BACK IN BUSINESS! The steering was actually more responsive than any of my prior test drives! I piddled for a bit and then shut her down to just stand and stare at my new toy for awhile. 15 minutes later, cranked her back up and damned if steering hadn't lost prime again. So I'm not sure if the seller had been secretly priming the steering before each of my visits, or if the haul to my place somehow jarred something loose. Either way, I'm in the process of investigating the cause. I already found the steering case fluid level to be off of the dipstick, but still visible from the fill plug. I'm going to top that off, check the suction screen/lines, and then see what happens.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Just a word on clutch and brake steering . . . the clutch determines the direction of the turn and the brake controls the rate.

For instance if walking the machine across a level paddock if you pull a clutch the machine will barely change direction.

It may tend to drift but you need to apply the brake to execute a significant change in heading . . . incidentally the clutch should be pulled and returned in one smooth movement, pull clutch, press brake, release brake, engage clutch.

The clutches should either be fully in or fully out, don't ever try to slip them.

Hope all goes well with your purchase. The two local machines here have the NH220 and the biggest problem for the owners is finding a fitter who understands the engine.

I really like the 65's and found them to be a reliable productive machine.

Cheers

 

[jasonharville]

Yair . . .

Just a word on clutch and brake steering . . . the clutch determines the direction of the turn and the brake controls the rate.

For instance if walking the machine across a level paddock if you pull a clutch the machine will barely change direction.

It may tend to drift but you need to apply the brake to execute a significant change in heading . . . incidentally the clutch should be pulled and returned in one smooth movement, pull clutch, press brake, release brake, engage clutch.

The clutches should either be fully in or fully out, don't ever try to slip them.

Hope all goes well with your purchase. The two local machines here have the NH220 and the biggest problem for the owners is finding a fitter who understands the engine.

I really like the 65's and found them to be a reliable productive machine.

Cheers

Thanks for the information. I was a bit confused by the service manual steering clutch/brake relationship. I think the translation from Japanese to English may be the cause for confusion. It says, "...power remains partially on the clutch and drives the track shoe on the turning side, resulting in a wide turning radius. In order to improve on this, it is so designed as to apply a brake on the outer drum(brake drum) by depressing the pedal further on the turning side further in order to shorten the turning radius". When I first read this, I took "it is so designed" to mean that there is linkage between the clutch and the brake system. But from what I can see, no such linkage exists.

You mentioned the NH220. After a good pressure washing, I was able to find the engine tag and I definitely have the N855C Big Cam engine, which was manufactured in 1987. I first thought someone might have replaced the 220 with the 855, but I'm finding evidence that it may have been original equipment. This machine has "Brazil" in several of the castings, and the model number is "D65e-6b". I suspect that the "b" at the end is indication that it was manufactured in Brazil. Googling that model number turns up several other machines for sale that claim to be Late 80's to early 90's machines. Outside of google evidence, I haven't really been able to find many other details about it. I'm operating on the assumption that everything outside of the engine is the same as any other D-65e-6. So far the rest of the systems seem to match up with what I see in the service manual.

The good news is that the Cummins 855 was used in alot of different applications and appears to be pretty easy to work on and/or find parts for.

If anyone has any info or history on the D65e-6b's I'm all ears!

 

[jasonharville]

So I've been putting my d65 to work and have a few questions that have come up. I tried searching the forums but didn't come up with anything. Any help on either of these questions?

• I appear to have some oil in my coolant. Service manual suggestslikely causes for this are bad head gasket, issue in oil cooler, or cracked block/head but doesn't have any troubleshooting order/recommendations. Is there any common place for this to occur on these machines that I should start checking first?
• In reverse the machine makes a hum/squeal that I would say sounds closest to a hydraulic pressure relief valve. Its very difficult to pinpoint the location of the noise so far. At first I thought it was on the back half of the machine but with my ear plugs in its easier to hear b/c the engine noise is muffled and it almost sounds like its coming from the front half. I can't think of anything on the engine that/front half of the tractor that would cause the noise to only occur in reverse, so I'm guessing its gotta be in the trans. The noise seems to stay the same in any reverse gear and stops as soon as shifted to neutral even if the machine is still moving. I also haven't noticed any weakness in reverse. Any ideas?

 

[DMiller]

The Komatsu engine is essential a cloned old style Cummins. Notorious for leaking coolant at head gaskets, really bad if the blocks are soft for shifting heads eroding block surfaces, check for broken head bolts, take a steel bar and drop lightly onto the heads of the head bolts, a thud will signify a broken one and ring indicates are solid. Anyone that has worked the OLD NH and NTC Cummins engines know to not touch the coolant sealant washers in the head gaskets with fingers or to allow any oils on the block surface head surfaces when replacing them. As to oil in coolant is only apt to be from the oil cooler as nowhere else beyond a cracked block will that transfer.

 

[jasonharville]

The Komatsu engine is essential a cloned old style Cummins. Notorious for leaking coolant at head gaskets, really bad if the blocks are soft for shifting heads eroding block surfaces, check for broken head bolts, take a steel bar and drop lightly onto the heads of the head bolts, a thud will signify a broken one and ring indicates are solid. Anyone that has worked the OLD NH and NTC Cummins engines know to not touch the coolant sealant washers in the head gaskets with fingers or to allow any oils on the block surface head surfaces when replacing them. As to oil in coolant is only apt to be from the oil cooler as nowhere else beyond a cracked block will that transfer.

Thanks for the information. My machine actually has the Cummins N855 engine, but it sounds like all the same might apply given your clone statement. I'll start my investigation with the oil cooler. Any thoughts on the reverse noise?

 

[DMiller]

I have been working Cummins for 40 years, had real problems in the old days with leaks. Coolant in oil is almost always attributable to head gaskets, reverse is almost always a cooler. If you have a small cam engine be cautious of the cam, they were seriously bad for flaking the lobes and or the followers, the followers are how the engine is final timed. If a big cam they had issue with spinning cam bearings, lose oil pressure(not completely) will show a burnt mark between cam follower boxes. ALSO if you get a low miss that intensifies under load pull the rocker covers and pull the injector push rods, will most likely find the culprit to be a oil filled pushrod, only fix replace the pushrod, really common. The way to find out which is short drop the rods end first onto a solid surface, should clang, goes thud is full.

If you pull the heads, pull the injectors FIRST, the tips stick out below deck height and usually end up damaged by sitting the head down either to reposition for removal or to set them on a bench. O-rings are cheap and there is a sneaky trick to 'setting' them when go back together.

Everything as to Cummins part is done off the engine s/n and the CPL number on the data plate.