Just some work pics

[crane operator]

They were looking for a 150 ton I think?

 

[Manistar]

Looks like a pretty clean 40ton. What year? I ended up buying a tms540. I haven't had a chance to use it much yet but I can see the electronic over hydraulic will take some getting used to. The cable hoist seems real sensitive on a single line. When I test drove it they had the block with 4 parts so it wasn't as noticeable. Do the 500e have electronic over hydraulic controls?

 

[crane operator]

If you bought one of the late 90's early 2000's grove tms 540's, the joysticks are not electric. They will be pilot hydraulics. I've found the grove pilot hydraulics to be pretty smooth, but the winches tend to be not as smooth starting and stopping. Getting the hydraulic relief settings correct can make a difference.

See if yours has a switch on the arm rest labeled "boom boost". If it does, turn it off. That will sometimes help smooth out the winch.

My new to me tms500e was sold as a 2004, but I suspect its actually a 2003. Most of the 2004's were cummins and eaton automated manuals, mine is still a cat with the allison. Grove switched the engine and transmission combo right in that time frame.

 

[crane operator]

The big plus of pilot hydraulics- they give a resistance to the function of the lever. You can "feel" the valve opening and closing. The newest design is "electric" over hydraulic. In those, the lever activates a hall effect or similar controller, sending a signal to a ecm that will send another signal to a electric actuated hydraulic valve.

Pilot hydraulics give much more feel, but today, its cheaper for the manufacturers to run wires than run pilot hydraulic controls.

So now everyone has gone to electric controls. I don't think they are better. Except- liebherr electric controls and valves are top notch. But they don't use cheapy hydraulic valves like the current boom truck series. My liebherr is smooth and precise. But the newer boom trucks were built to a different price point.

 

[skyking1]

If you can get a revolution indicator in front of you that helps tremendously with lack of feedback. That is another gaping hole in conventional boom trucks.

 

[crane operator]

New greer rotation indicator are $2,300 last I priced one. They are still the best solution.

All my pilot hydraulic rigs use a small "thumper" in the joystick, that pips up and down when the winch is turning. They tend to be not very durable.

 

[skyking1]

New greer rotation indicator are $2,300 last I priced one. They are still the best solution.

All my pilot hydraulic rigs use a small "thumper" in the joystick, that pips up and down when the winch is turning. They tend to be not very durable.

If it were my National 1100 series I would put a rubber contact wheel against the drum edge, and a drive band off that to a shaft under the boom where I could see it from both stations. KISS.

 

[Manistar]

Hmm, I had another guy with a tms540 I was talking to before I bought mine and he mentioned that they were electronic over hydraulic. Now I'm curious ill have to do some reading in the service manual to see what they are. Mine was sold as a 99 but had a lower serial number than one i saw posted as a 98. It has thumpers in the joystick, it just seems pretty sensitive. Like I said I haven't really even run it yet, I ran it a little before i bought it and I've set it up on a jobsite but it's been too rainy or windy and I just haven't got to use it yet. I didn't notice any speed toggles, I know on the left joysticks it has the swing lock and a toggle to disable the aux. winch, but I don't recall anything on the righthand side.

 

[crane operator]

I thought all the groves of that era were pilot hydraulics. Look in the armrests and winding around the seat, and see if there's a whole nest of hydraulic hoses running through there.

If it were my National 1100 series I would put a rubber contact wheel against the drum edge, and a drive band off that to a shaft under the boom where I could see it from both stations. KISS.

I've run a crane that had a drive wheel on the drum running a cable, like a old mechanical tach cable drive, to a wheel in the cab. I can't remember what it was on.

My old P and H has a mechanical drive set up also, but its a little different.

 

[crane operator]

Do the 500e have electronic over hydraulic controls?

Sorry, I don't think I was clear- both my 500e's are pilot hydraulics. The only thing I have that is electric over hydraulic is our liebherr.

 

[CM1995]

Demo’d a gas station once and didn’t know it was prefab until we found the steel frame under the floor. Looked just like a site build store.

 

[Manistar]

Well I finally got a chance to play with my new crane a little bit. Took a look under the arm rest and found nothing but wires. It can be pretty sensitive but after running it a bit you get used to it. I wonder though if enough people didn't like them that they went back to pilot hydraulics in the tms500e.

 

[crane operator]

Took a look under the arm rest and found nothing but wires

That's fascinating to know. I've run the one the local college has, but really didn't look it over. I didn't know that grove tried electric on the 540's. Better hope the electric holds up, because they didn't build a lot of those, so I don't know what availability is on parts. Did you get the 115' main or the 90" main boom?

I always thought the boom selection on the 540's was a goldilocks kind of deal. The 115' are too much and the 90' too short, and they were missing the "just right". They don't have enough counterweight to really use the 115' at radius, and the 90's are just a little short to get things done on main boom. The chart with the 90' main and jib on is pretty good. I want the chart of the 90' with jib, when using the 115' main.

As far as the elec. vs hyd-
I find the pilot hydraulics pretty responsive and durable. The only drawbacks are- they make a mess in the cab if they start leaking, and they can be like sitting in a radiator when the oil gets hot. 150-200 degree oil running through the armrests can become uncomfortable.


Grove still builds a 3 axle truck crane. Where I think they are really missing the boat, is not putting their longer main booms in it. They have the booms from the national boom truck line, from the 50-60 ton nationals, and could easily use them. A 127' main would be nice. I image there are customers that would do the 141' also. I think they would rather just build the national line, and let freightliner and pete deal with the constantly changing emmissions requirements and transmission options.

Two things that national has finally got right on their line, is offering a extended length/ height outrigger jack, and offering a third outrigger pinning width, to stay under 20' width instead of their usual 24'. The outriggers have always been too short, and I can't use a 24' width most of the time.

 

[crane operator]

 

[Tugger2]

So what your saying is Grove mechanics arent like your typical Maytag repairman ? Stuff is way too complicated now. Lifted unknown tons, driven 100s of piles ,clammed thousands of yards with this old girl. Shes still going ,never had a mechanic called out on a job ,just fixed the odd airline or hyd line on the carrier myself. I know im a dinosaur.

 

[crane operator]

So what your saying is Grove mechanics arent like your typical Maytag repairman

From what I hear, the newer ECOS controlled locking booms are problematic. Grove used to be the gold standard of hydro's.

Grove has been run for the last 10 years by a group of bean counters and lawyers who don't care if its cranes they are selling, or paper towels. None of management has any history in the construction/ manufacturing of construction equipment business.

It shows in the quality of equipment that they are building today.

 

[Tugger2]

Thats a sad fact of the equipment business. American cranes were run down by Terex. In our area we lost Madill ,a smaller company that built the best in logging equipment. All run down by bean counters. It seems that Liebherr is one company that has stayed focussed on real quality,even if they are pretty complicated.The developement and production seems to keep ahead of the bean counters there.

 

[Knepptune]

View attachment 312504

Boy, some days the truth does hurt.

 

[Manistar]

Yea I hope they hold up as well. I got the 90' boom. The biggest reason for getting the crane was its ability to be 9 ton road legal. With the 115' boom it can get to 10 ton legal but that's stripped of the jib and counterweights but it can't get down to 9 ton. We're just a small construction company and not a crane rental so the cranes typically sit on a jobsite for a few months before moving. My dad's gotten away with sneaking the tms300 around on backroads under the guise of being construction equipment. In my 20s I went along with it but as I've gotten older and wiser I stress at the thought of moving it. I know the 90' main is a little short but in comparison to a 500e the 95' isn't much better and when when the jib is swung, which will probably be quite often, they're both 120' but at 40' radius the 540 has 11,950lb of lift and the 500e has 8,200lb of lift.

Yea none of the manufacturers seem to be interested in trying to make a 40-60ton truck crane federal bridge compliant. I guess they've just decided the boom trucks have taken over that market. Which I wouldnt mind but if i had half a million stuck in a boom truck it would have to be working as a rental everyday. The newest Grove tms500-2 has a better chart but it can't make a 9ton road anymore as the front axles just under 20,000lbs. I see link belts coming out with a new 40ton 4 axle truck crane and it looks like it'll have a good chart with 115' boom, essential the newer ht65 but derated with less counter weight. But stripped down it still can't get to 34,000lbs on each tandem. Maybe Minnesota laws just suck for cranes and permits and other states are more lenient.

 

[crane operator]

So what your saying is Grove mechanics arent like your typical Maytag repairman ? Stuff is way too complicated now. Lifted unknown tons, driven 100s of piles ,clammed thousands of yards with this old girl. Shes still going ,never had a mechanic called out on a job ,just fixed the odd airline or hyd line on the carrierView attachment 312505 myself. I know im a dinosaur.

That is a great picture. My wife is a sunshiny day kind of person. I like a little clouds and cooler.