Joystick controls /servo controls on TBL's

[Mr HMK]

Hi !

As you know long time ago backhoe loader manufacturers started to apply joystick controls on their equipment.

At the beginning that was a bit RISKY desicion for the users, because manufacturers were not much experienced on "servo systems".

Nowadays cost of the servo control application is reasonable and joysticks work problem-free. And I believe they will be more popular in near future.

Anyways, if you had had any interest on servo controls ,what was the reason?

Should joysticks', ergonomic superiority (control from wrists than shoulder movements ) can be a positive argument on your backhoes purchasing process?

Or?.. any other comments on joystick controls?

Regards!

 

[Cat420]

I first saw joysticks offered in the US as a standard equipment on the Cat 420D. Of course I drooled over them, but figured I would never get to run them. A few years later my family bought a used one and it was so much better than a normal backhoe. They are everything that the advertisements say and more.

These are the pilot controls as opposed to electric over hydraulic. I'm sure the new electro-hydro controls are thoroughly tested, but I can't get over the thought that you are just one electrical relay away from being out of service. At least with pilot controls, you have direct link to the valving and if a small hose blows, it can easily be replaced. The 420D still has the old mechanical pattern changer as well. Time will tell how long the electrical switches are good for. Maybe my feelings on electrical stuff is unfounded, but lack of a "limp" mode when something goes wrong really hurts.

 

[Mr HMK]

These are the pilot controls as opposed to electric over hydraulic. I'm sure the new electro-hydro controls are thoroughly tested, but I can't get over the thought that you are just one electrical relay away from being out of service.

Hi 420,

Yes, electro-hydro controls may not be safe you are right.

But there are different applications similar to big excavators applications. Which are not electronic or doesn't include any electronics inside.

Almost same hydraulic system as the classic machines + pilot valves (not electronic) to activate classic valves - classic levers.

Results almost same safety as classic ones.

 

[klyons]

airbus airplanes are all fly by wire ,ointhead scary
ill take a old boeing or dc 10 any day over those any day,
in mahine i think your better off piloted controls

 

[Steve Frazier]

My skid steer has pilot controls and after having used them as long as I have, I wouldn't consider buying any machine without them. These controls vary between manufacturers in comfort of use and sensitivity. I believe Cat was the first domestic manufacturer to offer them and as such has the most experience with them. This has allowed them to refine them longer and in my opinion they are superior to most other manufacturers. I've run other skid steers with them and the sensitivity just doesn't seem to compare.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

airbus airplanes are all fly by wire ,ointhead scary
ill take a old boeing or dc 10 any day over those any day,
in mahine i think your better off piloted controls

FBW (fly-by-wire) is going to be the new standard (and is already the new standard in most planes). Easier maintenance is a huge way for airlines to save money, and FBW simply is easier to maintain than mechanical linkages. The 777 will be the last brand-new plane developed that still has mechanical backups for certain control surfaces; the Airbus A380 and Boeing 787 will be fully electrical.

There is a huge element of "see-ability" that allows mechanics to see what's going on, but the improvements in cost structure to both the manufacturer and the end user are forcing companies to stay ahead of the technology curve as much as they can. EH will replace pilots someday, and who knows what'll happen after that. If there are keyboards that can work just by projecting light onto a desk surface, perhaps we'll see "imaginary" joysticks one day. Imagine trying to train a new operator with the machine off -- you'd be gesturing wildly in mid-air! But aha! Now the company can offer "complete training solutions" as well, yet another source of revenue.

 

[Ross]

O&K Have been using fly-by-wire servos for a few years now and its defo the best system for production and machine integrity. Not easy to trouble shoot though :Banghead

The Proto-type RH120 had problems with ghost moments (which is very dangerous) But these gremlins have been ironed out and now the machines are market leaders.

One advantage is the travel controls can be transferred to the levers for ease of control in tight and long distance applications.

Ross

 

[Mr HMK]

ergonomy?

Ok. Lets evaluate like this;

IF it was totaly safe (non-elevtronic), what do you think about its ergonomy?

I also wonder another thing that, if "loader side joystick" is meaning ful to you, or is it "squander"?

 

[MKTEF]

Our Volvo 6300 BLT was delivered with fully electronic joysticks in 1989.
(I have posted some pics of it around here)
We have used them since then, not so many hours on them, but still in use.
They say it is abuse, when they are parked for so long time between use.

I haven't heard of any major problems with that system.
There have been trouble with other things on them, but not with the joysticks.

Ergonomics is realy impressing, u use the two joysticks for everything, but the pedals.
And the stearing wheel at high speed.(roading)

When headed forward it controlls the loader, backwards the exc. Push a button and u change.
You are sitting backwards lifting the front bucket, swinging, gearing and mowing without turning your seat.
When u learn all the buttons it is a joy to ride.
Problem is, its a BLT. Nobody wants to ride them theese days, exc for all the money.

The producers around theese days are 20 years behind Volvo on that solution.
Now they are offering this solution to the customers.