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John Deere 410

L.M. REESE

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Ringgold GA
I just bought a JD 410 (not a letter series). I am fairly certain that it was imported from England based on an old phone number painted on the tractor and some decals.
The hoe has an odd "slide" that I've not seen before. The hoe functions normally but also has the capability to slide side to side across the width of the machine.
Does anyone have any info on this machine and are there any known problems/weak points?
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
That sliding hoe mount is pretty much standard in Europe and Australia, so that makes sense if it came from England. Very rare in the states to see a JD like that. I've seen Cases on here but not in real life.

On something that old, anything can be a weak point if not taken care of. Sorry, can't be more specific.
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
Anything that will fit the box. 750 CCA truck batteries will last longer than a higher Amp battery of the same size. Check your local heavy truck shop for their price. If you absolutely need it to start in the cold without being plugged in, then you might need two. One good one will start it for at least 2-3 years down to 0, if the engine and starting system are in good shape.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,063
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I bought a 410 about 1995. They are very well designed tractors once you understand them. Of their era they were the smoothest operating backhoe on the market. The closed center hydraulics provided that all functions could work simultaneously. Think of your home plumbing. Though there will be pressure change, any 2 or more valves can open at a time.

Everybody else used open center.

Open center pumps a constant volume of fluid from reservoir, to reservoir. Activate a valve, you block flow to other valves at least in part.

Closed center only taps for pressure to each cylinder. Pressure should remain near constant. The 8 cylinder hydraulic pump varies the length of piston stroke to control volume. It is genius............but, it means all the hydraulics up to each valve is at 1800? PSIG. A tiny leak produces a flood. Old tractors tend to leak. Old John Deere tractors tend to leak profusely.

Hydraulic mechanics well versed in open center may be confused by closed center physics. I learned the hard way.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,063
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Mine was 2 wheel drive. Scooping a bucket of gravel from a bank lifting the front bucket tends to take weight away from the back tires. Tires spin, making two ditches. Next scoop I had to fill the bucket while climbing out of the ditches. No torque converter makes them less than perfect loaders.
 

maweber

New Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Dublin, Texas
I just bought a JD 410 (not a letter series). I am fairly certain that it was imported from England based on an old phone number painted on the tractor and some decals.
The hoe has an odd "slide" that I've not seen before. The hoe functions normally but also has the capability to slide side to side across the width of the machine.
Does anyone have any info on this machine and are there any known problems/weak points?

I am the "proud" owner of one of these, commonly referred to as a white or grey machine that I purchased in early 2005. I say "proud" because all the JD parts people I've talked to in US, after telling them what I have offer their condolences...
The frame came out of the Manheim Germany plant, the engine out of France and the double 4 front end loader out of England, so I lovingly refer to it as my Johnny Cash Cadillac John Deere...
They are similar, but subtly different than the ones coming out of the Dubuque, Iowa plant and had some problems finding correct parts until someone pointed out the correct parts catalog for this tractor (PC4137).
recently after logging close to 800 hours, I split the tractor, pulled engine sent it to Michigan and had a custom remanufacture done on it, put a new, not rebuilt, hydraulic pump, replaced with new, clutch and pressure plate and had original starter and alternator remanufactured.
Over the years, the hydraulic system had seen some abuse, so months before the split, I started cleaning it up as best I knew how by draining, changing filters, running for 4-5 hours then repeating process. The system holds 20 gallons, but one can only drain about 7 at a time. By the time of the split had run about 60 gallons through this way and oil at dipstick looked mostly clear.
At post install start up, new pump acted like it was starving a bit for hydraulic oil and after some inquiring learned of transmission screen. Drained it, pulled it and it was chock full of all sorts of nasty sludge and replaced it with a new screen. On post start up pump sounded much better, so I took it up in pasture for a little break in run. After a couple hours use hydrostatic steering, I've never had problems with, started getting hard so I took it back to shop. Let it sit for a couple days before starting again and steering improved, so I took it out again. Within about an hour, steering got hard and eventually quit. Didn't want to leave it in pasture, so cracked hoses open on return side of steering cylinders and pried wheels in the direction of travel, retightened connections then drove tractor as far as I could, then stop and repeat process. By this time I figured the culprit to be some remnant trash in hydraulic system, but where? At one point in the process, I loosed connection from the pressure steel line from steering box at the hydraulic hose going to left steering cylinder and was surprised no fluid came out when started. finally backed tightening nut all the way off started, still no flow. Finally physically pulled hose connection apart and started and got a steady but low pressure stream of fluid. That told me there was a trash blockage in steering box. After getting back to shop, loosened both connections and fired it up, started working steering wheel and in about 90 seconds of run time it passed about 5 gallons of fluid. Shut it down, filled with fluid, retightened connections, restarted, but steering was still very hard. Probably going to be a reiterative process until the trash finds a happier place, as in one of the two clean filters...
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,063
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I don't know the source of your trash. My John Deere 410 had oil soaked brakes, so it was expected there'd be some gunk in the hydraulic screen. Mine was never as bad as what you describe. I did flush with new fluid a few rounds cleaning pick up screen, and replacing filters each time. Mine was a mystery in that it had no wear in the pins & bushings of the hoe, both buckets were with little wear. My best guess is it was an invalid from new, got largely ignored. It worked OK in winter, but only for the first half hour in summer.
 

maweber

New Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Dublin, Texas
Thanks for your quick response. I know the source of the trash, largely a self inflicted wound...Bought tractor in 2005, first things done were put in a working hour meter, start a log book, change both engine and hydraulic filters, then work it, or at first, learn how. I bought it, in lieu of renting, for excavation of basement for new house. Figured if I could get 300 hours use, it was paid for versus rental costs at the time. Buying used, I had no prior maintenance history for machine, but soon learned compression rings were blown as oil turned black 5 minutes after oil change. So split engine oil and filter changes in half servicing at 50 hours. After basement was excavation and subsequent site cleanup done, tractor got used less and I lost track of hydraulic system filter changes. Changed work location to 90 miles away and just used it just here and there occasionally for hour or less for this or that. Everything worked fine until a few years ago when front end loader started becoming less responsive at hydraulic oil temp increased. Still working during the week 90 miles away, and using only occasionally, the "Ford light bulb" still did not come on that it was time to drain and change hydraulic filters. I wasn't even remotely aware, at that time of the transmission screen.
At this point in time, at least hydrostatic steering is back as power steering, as in "it takes all the power one has" to steer it, but at least it steers... So short of any "magic bullet", all I know to do is keep on doing as I am:
incrementally bleeding and flushing, and incrementally draining and changing filters, all while exercising all aspects of hydraulic operation in between, hoping trash causing current problem eventually finds itself to a happier place.
 

maweber

New Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Dublin, Texas
After 28 hours of use, the "new" after market pump froze up and shelled the rubber "cushion" on the drive. Learned two expensive lessons from this experience:
1. Do not buy cheap aftermarket pumps made in Europe. The steel used is inferior to American steel.
2. Check Charge pressure at main pump to make sure main pump is getting at least 85lbs psi from transmission pump. To do this there are two ports on passenger side front of pump. Upper port is high pressure, lower port is charge pressure port. If its not receiving at least 85 psi, main pump will starve and prematurely die an early death... From what I can see from parts manual (haven't found correct service manual for this tractor yet), looks to me like a tractor split is involved to service transmission pump...Perhaps some of the experts can chime in...
 

maweber

New Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Dublin, Texas
Yes. At initial start up mobile mechanic picked up on pump growling immediately, so we didn't run long. RDO tech told me about screen and I replaced with new and cleaned out filter gallery as best as I could. It was noticeably improved after replacement. One thing I did not do was check charge pressure because I didn't know how to do that. Only after pump failure that a pump rebuilder told me how to check charge pressure. waiting to have replacement installed to check.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,376
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
From what I am reading you ran the machine 14 years and never cleaned the screen in the transmission.
And the new pump was run before the tech told you about the screen ?
I'm not nitpicking but, other people with this same problem need to know if it was a faulty aftermarket pump or if in fact the oil supply was restricted by the dirty screen.
It's unusual for even an aftermarket pump to puke on start-up.
The only way to change oil in a hydraulic system is doing a complete flush, new filters and cleaning any screens in the system.
Changing the reservoir oil several times is waste of good oil in a contaminated system. IMHO
 

Steve Frazier

Founder
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
6,609
Location
LaGrangeville, N.Y.
I had one of these I bought used in 1989. The backhoe is called a "Side Shift" and allows you to dig up against a foundation or similar without sitting at an angle. You can also dig a rectangular hole for a septic tank without moving the machine. Mine served me well but broke the input shaft to the transmission at one point. Tractor had to be split to replace it. I got it fixed. threw a coat of paint on it and sold it for $2000 more than I bought it for 12 years later!
 
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