JD 410 stuck in my driveway!

[Delmer]

That missing spline isn't causing your problems at the moment.

Yes, the exhaust valves come out the back. The picture is the intake valve, I think.

WRWTexan said the exhaust valves can leak allowing backflow, but to completely disable the pump the exhaust valve, and intake or piston on the same cylinder would have to leak significantly. Put the pump back together and see if compressed air will blow through it backwards, that might tell you something? Then clean the outside before you take it apart anymore.

 

[wrwtexan]

Splines are fine. Delmer, I agree about the exhaust valves. I was thinking they could be causing the low pressure problem. I've seen them with a deep ring worn in the valve plates on high hour pumps.

 

[Wino]

I finally got to the backside of the pump, I found one defective oring, I'm not real sure it's my problem. This pump doesn't seem to have a lot of hours on it to me. Anything else to look at before I reinstall?

 

[Delmer]

If that o ring was leaking it would have been dripping outside the pump. I don't know what happened there.

That valve plate looks like a pretty deep groove to me. WRWTexan has way more experience with these than I do. The disc itself is probably available separately but I don't know if you should put a new disc against a worn seat. Is that steel or brass like it looks to me? can you remove the disc and flip it over?

 

[Wino]

Not sure what the valve plate is? If it's the photo that I'm holding a spring loaded valve, it's steel. I think the oil gives it a gold look. it's also multiple pieces, no groove wear of any kind of depth in it.

 

[Delmer]

no groove wear of any kind of depth in it.

Really? that sure looks like a circular groove to me. Part #17 from post 16 is the valve plate or disc, that looks gold in the pic. It was flat when new.

 

[Wino]

When I get back out to the garage I'll check it out again, I thought that it was two pieces, and that's the seam you see in the pic. the outer ring catches on the three claws and the center is like a spring loaded tappet. I could easily be totally wrong on this, I've never been into one of these pumps before.

 

[Delmer]

That would be new to me. The one I've seen is a flat steel disc (well, it was flat when new, worn with a ring with 5,000 hrs) that seats against the protruding collar inside the pump.

 

[Shimmy1]

I scrolled through this post rather quick, but didn't see any mention of checking charge pressure. Those rotary pumps need charge pressure to function. Also, there usually.is a manual destroke screw on the stroke control valve. Just a couple things came to my mind.

 

[Wino]

Okay, you were 100% correct. Here's the pics, the grooves are all uniformed and look machined. Are they supposed to be there? Nothing really irregular

 

[Wino]

I don't have any charge pressure, for awhile I'd have it but, if I moved anything it would fall off. I do have flow(approx. 3-4gal in 30sec). I figured my problem was on the pressure side but, I'm out of ideas at this point:beatsme

 

[Delmer]

Well, yes the grooves are supposed to be there, this thing is decades old That's normal wear and IMO is not causing your issues. They came flat, think about it, how do you machine that groove, and how do you machine the rounded matching seat?

Last I checked those discs were $25 (25pack), but that's not going to solve your issues, and I don't know what it would do if you put flat discs against worn rounded seats.

 

[Wino]

I agree, I don't feel I've discovered the cause of the problem yet. I guess I'm going to reassemble and start capping off parts of the system to see if I get a change. Anyone have any good ideas? The grass on that side of the driveway is getting long lol!

 

[Delmer]

I forget, have we talked about the pressure control valves (three of them) on the side somewhere?

 

[Wino]

We haven't, they are on main pump or the drivetrain? I've checked what I think is a pressure relief valve, above the trans pump filter. In the manual there is a basic hydraulic diagram, I saw two potential valves on the output side of the trans pump, haven't been able to locate them yet.

 

[Delmer]

I don't have that model or a manual for it, so I'm guessing based on another Deere model and jdparts.com. Your's will be different.

Either the REVERSER CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE or the PRESSURE CONTROL VALVE is where I'd look. My understanding is the transmission pump supplies the oil pressure to the reverser first at the highest pressure, then the charge pressure to the hydraulic pump at a medium pressure, then lube/oil cooler flow at a lower pressure. Did you mention a bypassed oil cooler, or was that somebody else?

There are three "relief" or "pressure control" valves-they do the same thing. The first one releases enough oil from the transmission circuit to the charge circuit to maintain the transmission pressure, the second one releases enough oil from the charge circuit to the lube/cooler circuit to maintain the charge pressure. The third one releases enough oil from the lube/cooler circuit to keep the pressure from blowing the oil cooler etc. There are lots of clips, orifices, and even cotter pins in this whole mess that could cause problems. You should be able to locate these valves by comparing the drawings on jdparts.com with the descriptions in the manual and your machine. The service manual is the best way to figure out their function and test procedure.

 

[Wino]

I didn't mention a cooler bypass, I checked a transmission filter relief(seemed okay to me). Reverser clutch control valve sound like a good place to check, because the machine slips in high gear. I also figure I'll attempt to cap lines to circuits to see if I can narrow the issue down some how. Still not certain if it's a high or low pressure issue. Wouldn't be any fun if it was easy!

 

[Wino]

I was doing some checking today, my hydraulic pump is back on and, I was able to move the hoe out of the way but, is by no means right. I idled at 3/4 throttle and searched for anything getting hot. The feed Line to the hoe and valve block was around 130f while everything else was 100 to 110. I got the bright idea that I would remove the feed line and cap it. I figured if the loader and steering came back to life I was in business. The opposite happened, nothing would move at all. My question is should I have connected the feed line with the out line in a loop? I figured maybe I just cut flow to the whole system, not real sure what was going on. Before I could try to cap the loader valve I got rained on so I'm not certain what the result of that would be

 

[Delmer]

So you capped the line to the backhoe valve block, and nothing would work then? And everything, trans, hoe, loader, steering, brakes, all worked at least a little before capping that line? I can't explain that, but it could be coincidence also with a machine that seems to have a mind of it's own when it works or doesn't. Uncapping the line immediately and having everything start working would be more to go on. Knowing the charge pressure when it's doing these things might be useful.

The only useful bit of info that I can add is that the backhoe and loader return flow (and leakage) goes back to the hydraulic pump charge circuit, but the brakes and steering go back to the reservoir.

 

[old-iron-habit]

I was doing some checking today, my hydraulic pump is back on and, I was able to move the hoe out of the way but, is by no means right. I idled at 3/4 throttle and searched for anything getting hot. The feed Line to the hoe and valve block was around 130f while everything else was 100 to 110. I got the bright idea that I would remove the feed line and cap it. I figured if the loader and steering came back to life I was in business. The opposite happened, nothing would move at all. My question is should I have connected the feed line with the out line in a loop? I figured maybe I just cut flow to the whole system, not real sure what was going on. Before I could try to cap the loader valve I got rained on so I'm not certain what the result of that would be

Did the tractor even start with the lines capped? Many of the older machines flowed thru the hoe with a power beyound valve bank and then fed the rest of he tractor. They had to be connected to make the loop when the hoe ws removed.