JD 410 stuck in my driveway!

[Wino]

I've posted on this machine twice now. My issues with it have gotten worse and I'm not getting any where with it, it now has dead hydraulics and is sitting in the middle of the driveway were I moved it to work on it. Not a big deal to me cuz I think it's a good looking machine but my wife is a WHOLE nother story! This is what I've done, I've checked the pickup screen, changed filters and hyd. Fluid. I've checked pressures at the hydraulic pump, my main pressure was low slightly and my charge pressure was fine until I moved any function then it drops to zero, since the problem has gotten to where the hydraulics are dead, my charge pressure stays at zero. I disconnected the feed line to the main pump ran it into a bucket and got aprox. 4 gallons in 20 seconds of running the engine. I have removed a piston in the main pump at it looked it really good condition. I've checked the transmission filter relief valve and it seemed okay but I'm not sure exactly what to look for. On top of it all the machine slips in high range, pulls ok in low range. I figured the problem could be connected. Sorry for all the info at once, I'm not sure what to check next, my guess was pressure regulating valve but can't find where it's located. I'd really appreciate any help.

 

[wrwtexan]

Dead main hydraulics could be a sticking stroke control valve in the main pump. It controls stroke in pressure and if it hangs then you have no flow or pressure.

 

[Wino]

Can I check the stroke control valve by removing the plug on top of the hydraulic pump, that's above the solenoid?

Thanks for the reply

 

[wrwtexan]

The stroke control valve is reference #'s 26 to 32. It is a real pain to remove and mainly reinstall in place even in the larger tractors (4440). The destroke solenoid or as my 310 has a T screw, is directly above it. The valve is held in place with a 1 1/8" plug with adjustment screw in it which I don't think the front casting will allow access to.

 

[Wino]

Sounds like removing the pump would be the way to go? Do you think this would cause no charge pressure as well as no main hydraulic pressure?

 

[Wino]

I'm not sure if it's significant or not but, I unplugged the destroke solenoid valve today started the machine and I was able to raise the loader and the boom. The hydraulics definitely are not working(it was just different than zero response) I also noticed while grabbing lines to see whats hot or cold, I felt like a hammering or heavy vibration in the hydraulic pump output line. Figured its worth mentioning.

 

[wrwtexan]

If it will raise the boom, it is building close to normal pressure. The hammering is the eight pistons being pushed outward by the rotating cam and could be some shaft bearing or cam ring and needle bearing issues there. If you have flow from the charge pump, you may have some internal failure in the main allowing through flow. Rebuild takes some special tooling, but disassembly and inspection isn't difficult. May find some exhaust valves leaking or failed. System is the same as the farm tractor it is built upon (likely a 2000 series 2550, 2750 etc.).

 

[Wino]

The pump is coming off then! hopefully by the weekend, I'll post some pics.

Thank you for the assistance

 

[Wino]

pump removed

The pump is off, i took some pics of some of the internals. This pump seems to be in really good shape! Not sure what other parts of the pump to look at?

 

[Wino]

 

[wrwtexan]

The sleeve in the bottom pic is the stroke control valve. I've had them stick and kill pressure which is adjustable by the screw in the center of the plug under its spring. The front cast plate holds the front bearing in place. Behind the bearing is the cam and bearing ring which contacts the pistons. I noticed in an earlier post that unplugging the destroke solenoid allowed it to work some. Maybe it is partially holding the stroke valve off its seat?

 

[Wino]

Everything slides in and out of the bores by hand fairly easy. I'm going to put 12v to the solenoid and see if it's working. I'm beginning to wonder if someone replaced the hydraulic pump not long ago. I can turn the main shaft by hand easily, not sure if that should be? I don't want to reinstall it till I'm sure it's not my issue. Would you pull all the pistons?

 

[Delmer]

I'm going to put 12v to the solenoid and see if it's working.

DON'T do that without a manual, the coil is NOT 12V and will burn out in seconds, at least the newer ones?

The shaft turning "easily by hand" doesn't seem right to me from memory. It seemed like the spring pressure was too much for me to turn it. What does WRWTexan say?

With one piston out, you should see/feel the cam/eccentric movement if you turn the shaft a full turn.

 

[Wino]

Thankfully I read this before the 12v test! Don't need anymore problems lol I'm thinking about removing all pistons just because I'm this far, I may as well be sure it's not the pump before I reinstall it. I called Deere today and asked if they could bench test the pump, I got a no on that one. The tech told me they are only tested/turned on the machine itself. It does turn pretty easy. Something interesting to note, I removed the radiator to access the bolts to remove the pump, I needed a bucket to catch the fluid and the only one free was the one used to test the trans pump flow, and still had some fluid in it so I dumped it, at the bottom of that bucket was like a blue gray silt that settled out of my hydraulic fluid. My filters and fluid are maybe 5-10 hours old. I'm not sure if this red flags my brakes or related or non related to my dead hydraulics issue?

 

[Delmer]

With one piston out, you should see/feel the cam/eccentric movement if you turn the shaft a full turn. Can you feel the crankshaft oscilate when you turn it? It will move about an inch.

 

[wrwtexan]

The pistons are backed by a spring but may tend to cancel each other out when turning. As Delmer said, you might pull one and see if you notice a spot of resistance. I believe the solenoid is 12 volt as it is a standard coil similar to what is found on most safety lockout valves, and there would have to be a calibrated resistor in the system to knock it down from 12 to 6 and I don't know of one on them.
Items 10-12 and 17-20 are the intake and exhaust valves respectively, which the exhaust side can fail to seal as the other pistons pump, allowing backflow. The blue grey silt may or may not be related to your problem but it sounds like what I have a 4840 powershift clutch pack out for. A brake piston had pushed out and hung and the brake plate was ground up and spread throughout the system like aluminum paint. One clutch piston cavity was packed full of metal powder and wouldn't allow the piston to return upon de-application. Swipe a magnet through it and see if anything sticks.

 

[Delmer]

I'm just going by memory, but it SEEMS like I couldn't turn the crankshaft on the pump by hand, not easily at least, that's with the springs and pistons installed. You wouldn't be the first to break that shaft, not that it's common, but anything can happen...

 

[Wino]

The shaft definitely turns the crank, it has resistance till I hit the spot with the piston removed. The exhaust valve seems to have a lite spring but, is clean and in good shape. To access the 17-20 parts I would need to remove the rear block of the pump that's held on by 4 bolts?

 

[Wino]

I took a pic of the chewed on shaft, I'm not sure what that's about, doesn't look as though it slipped in the splines.

 

[Tinkerer]

You definitely need a new shaft and the coupling it goes into. It is not unusual to see that kind of wear on a high hour pump.