I hate intuitions

[Welder Dave]

The auction of the axles is going great! However when I was making a detailed list of lot numbers and bids I had 3 lots that were unaccounted for. These just happened to be the most expensive to replace axles out of all of them. 2 lots were for 10,000lb torsion axles with hyd. brakes. The other lot was for a pair of 7000lb torsion axles with brakes, drums and hubs. I had reserves of $225 on the 10,000lb axles and $300 on the pair of 7000lb axles. Looking at the prices bid in the current auction it's safe to assume these 3 lots would sell for well over $1000 combined. I called the auction house to enquire about them. I was horrified when the auctioneer said they were sold by mistake because THEY FORGOT to put subject to on these 3 lots!!! The most expensive lots of all of them. I went over the subject to lots in great detail especially the 10,000lb torsion axles. I said the minimum I should get is the commission I would have received at my reserve. He didn't offer it. He said he'll work something out. He should be paying me the full value of my reserves because he doesn't deserve commission for HIS MAJOR SCREW UP! It makes no difference at all how well the rest of the sale is going. He said he contacted the buyers but they refused to bring the axles back. I had a gut feeling that's what happened. They sold for like $10 and $30 I think. No way in hell they should have been sold. I would think if there was a blatant mistake like this he could legally go after the buyers to return them. The prices were a joke. I will take him to court if he doesn't properly compensate me. I will figure out a value based on the results of the current auction if he tries to stiff me even $.02. Incompetence at it's best. He should have told me he sold them for the reserve. It was the easy way out for him. He didn't, he said they were sold by mistake. If I accept the $489 I would have got at my reserve let's him off really really easy. Should I accept nothing less than $750 since that was an established minimum? Like I said above, the results of the rest of the axles has absolutely no baring on these axles. I would have bid them up if I knew the subject to was taken off. He could have called to say the subject to was mistakenly taken off and I would have put a proxy bid at my minimum. If my cancer was stage 4 and I only had a few month's to live I might be able to add murderer to my resume! Holy $#@%! I think anybody would be beyond livid.
Edit.
I went back and looked at the items (the auction is still showing online) listed and they do say subject to on these lots. The auction company really screwed up letting them go for less than peanuts.

 

[OzDozer]

This guy is a complete idiot and shouldn't be in the auction business. Take him to the cleaners, he owes you big time, there's no argument about that, just the argument about exactly how much he owes you.

You should've bid them up yourself, as it appears his whole setup is a shambles.

 

[Welder Dave]

Totally agree! His claim the subject to was mistakenly taken off doesn't wash when the listing where you bid mentions it in the initial description and again in the full description. That's why I didn't bid it up. Some items that should have said subject to didn't and I did bid those up just in case. It's not the same as shill bidding if there's supposed to be subject to (a reserve) and it wasn't mentioned. If he pays me the extra $700 to match my reserve he's getting off easy. For me to get $750 after he takes his 35% would require the 3 lots to sell for about $1150. Going by what other items were selling for it's not a stretch that the 3 lots could have sold for $1300 or more. Pairs brought the highest prices. The 2 10K axles are identical. These 3 lots were the heaviest rated single axles (the only 10K with suspension) and the heaviest rated pair also with torsion suspension. The highest bid is for a pair of 6K axles at $600. The only other pairs are 3500K and they are the next highest bid at $450. 7K axles with brakes but no suspension are at $275-$300 currently. The sale ends tomorrow and it's likely there will be some last minute bids to try and out bid just before time runs out. I'm hoping that happens.

Regardless of the BS with these lots the axles will sell for roughly $10,000! Pretty good money for something you got for free. The 35% commission is high but the sale did allowed reserves. It's really fishy how only the 3 most valuable lots slipped through the cracks. When they realized the mistake how did they let the axles get picked up? Like really a 10K torsion axle for $10 or a pair of 7K torsion axles for $30? If there really was a terrible mistake the auction house would have no problem getting the axles back legally. Clearly a case of too good to be true. If the price was couple hundred $$ then the buyer might have a bit of an argument but $10 come on. I'm also curious how long he was going to wait until he told me or was I going to get a surprise when I went to pick up my money? Hmm?? What would happen if he pulled something like this on a vehicle or equipment worth 10's of thousands of $$$$?

 

[Acoals]

Life happens. Relax, you aren't going to gain anything giving yourself high blood pressure over it.

You just said you are making $10,000 for zero investment! Take what you can get and move on.

You aren't going to get anywhere with lawyers, you probably wouldn't end up with more that the $700 in your pocket after a lawyer anyway.

 

[crane operator]

I'm with Acoals, if you got what you wanted for the whole group, what difference does the individual amounts make? Let it go.

You were willing to sell the whole group for $2,500 or $3,500, and now you're complaining when it brought over $10,000? May all your problems be so large.

 

[ianjoub]

Make sure to save screenshots of the auction site where it lists 'subject to'.

 

[Welder Dave]

I did take screen shots showing the subject to. What the rest of the sale brought has no bearing on these 3 lots at all. If he pays me the $700 difference he's getting off easy. For comparison a pair of 6K axles sold for $600 and a single 7K torsion axle had a last second bidding war and went for $425. It would be extremely reasonable to assume the 3 lots would have sold for $1500 or more. They were heavier rated axles. I really don't understand the I got more than I thought and should just let it go. I think anyone else having this happen to wouldn't just let it go. It's easy let it go when it's not you that's getting screwed. This isn't the auction houses first rodeo. He's been in business since 1999 and claims to be a professional. He can't claim he's new to auctioneering. There is no excuse for this, none. It's also very suspect that it involved the 3 most valuable lots. Replacement value on all the axles would be well over $50,000. They came from a big trailer shop. I'm hoping the guy owns the screw up and at the very least pays me the $700 difference. He should pay more but I would accept the $700. Anything less and he's got a problem. I wouldn't need a lawyer for this. It's cut and dry! It would cost me $25 to file a claim. He wouldn't look good in front of a judge but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. I wonder if he's pulled this crap with anyone else with a lot of items in a sale?? The other thing is he's also making a lot more than expected. It's not like I was paying a set price for him to sell the axles. He's getting 35% plus another 10% buyers commission so he can certainly afford to pay for his major screw up.

 

[Welder Dave]

The auction is over now. The axles portion came to just under $8950. If the 3 missing lots would have sold for comparable prices of what the next closest to them sold for they would have represented about 17% of the total of all the axles. That's a lot considering there were 61 lots of axles. Will have to see what he offers and go from there. I don't think many people would like being cheated out of 17% on a $9000 job. It's really unprofessional and shouldn't be happening at a well established auction house. Below are the 3 lots in question. Clearly state "subject to". It couldn't be more clear. The last 2 are the closest to compare them to.

10,000 lb Torsion Axle- Subject to

10,000 lb Torsion Axle comes with hydraulic brakes. 63" outside frame mount. Subject to consignor approval.

www.stuff4.sale

10,000 lb Torsion Axle- Subject to

10,000 lb Torsion Axle comes with hydraulic brakes. 63" outside frame mount. Subject to consignor approval.

www.stuff4.sale

Two Torsion 7000 lb Axles. Subject to consignor approval.

Two 7000 lb Torsion Axles. Comes with hydraulic brakes. Center spring is 72". Subject to consignor approval.

www.stuff4.sale

Two 6000 lb Axles

Two 6000 lb Axles that come with hydraulic brakes. Center spring is 50.5".

www.stuff4.sale

New 7000 lb Flexride Torsion Axle

New 7000 lb Flexride Torsion Axle. Center spring is 66.75

www.stuff4.sale

 

[Welder Dave]

Went with my partner to the auction office today. I'll say that it's a good thing she was there! It wasn't the owner that screwed up but one of his employee's. The same buyer bought the 3 lots and is apparently a regular customer. The guy that listed the items is also the one that apparently let them go despite being subject to. I was very adamant that I should get $750 total value for the axles. That's the minimum amount I would have accepted to sell them. My portion after their commission would have been approx. $489. This wasn't brought up but the guy seemed to think we should meet in the middle and he somehow deserves commission. He was going on and on about how much the other axles brought and he spent $2000 advertising, blah, blah, blah. That has no bearing on these axles what so ever. I said you made more money too. Then some other guy comes to the front. I have no clue who he was. I said it's pretty obvious there's a mistake when $3500 axles get sold for $10. He said you can't compare to retail price. Then he said $3500 retail might be $2100 auction price (I'm waiting for him to break the price down further). It was very apparent he was losing his own argument so then he says he called a bunch of people and even his friend who builds trailers wasn't interested in the axles. Thankfully this bozo had to leave. Then the guy that listed/sold them says what if we take 2% off of the commission. I said that's only $200 and he actually agreed that's not enough. I said that would be OK if you also gave me $500. Nope, can't do that. We were at a standstill and I sat down in a chair behind me. The guy was going on about how I came in to help list the axles in the 2nd auction and went through all the subject to lots and minimums I would accept. I said I had nothing to do with what was listed in the 2nd auction. It was already done and I was just going over the subject to lots. Then my partner Debi asks, isn't there a list or something for the axles. The guy went and got the list. Looking at the list Debi asked if all the highlighted items were the subject to lots. We both noticed the guy's eye's kind of opened up right then and he had an oh $hit moment realizing he screwed up. Then the auction owner came to the front. I was expecting him to be even more arrogant but was nicely surprised he wasn't. I said he could legally get the axles back because it was a blatant error, $10 come on. He said he wouldn't want to do that to one of his customers. He basically wants to protect his reputation and doesn't want negative publicity and bad reviews. That's understandable. He was more of what can we do to make this right. I finally agreed to accept $550 for the axles. He said subject to isn't normally allowed on misc. items but there is nothing stating this anywhere on his website. He also said subject to works both ways and allows the high bidder to back out. This makes no sense and I've never heard of being able to back out if you're the high bidder. The only time is if the item isn't as described properly or is defective. He said it's only happened a few times and 90% of bidders buy the lot. The guy that sold the axles asked if all the subject to should just be pulled out of the auction. No, the issue is with only 3 lots. (Own up to your mistake!)
The only reason I compromised is because going to court is a hassle and I was somewhat impressed with the owner. Will I deal with him again to sell anything, no but I may bid on an item if it's the right price. I did make a quick $300 profit on the welder I bought from his auction. That was another small part of the reason I agreed to the $550. I really would have liked to see what the axles would have brought in the 2nd auction. Hopefully everyone pays and no more BS to deal with. All together the axles and racks brought a little over $10,000 so I'll get about $6600. Not too shabby. It just sucks the mistake was made with the 3 most valuable axles. I couldn't just let it go.

 

[cfherrman]

I wonder if you could have pressured him more saying the axles are stolen and you could call him in for it.

You signed a contract either you get your money or you get the axles

 

[Welder Dave]

I could have since they basically were but thought they'd go off the deep end if I mentioned stolen. I could have insisted they got the axles back. I understand the owner wouldn't want to do that to one of his customers but too bad. The owner said he tried to get the axles back and the buyer refused. Most people would be understanding that it was too good to be true and the axles sold for only $10 and $30. The buyer wouldn't have much of a defence that he bought them legitimately. Also since it appears to be a regular customer should be a little more understanding a mistake was made. The guy that did it said sorry but didn't own his screw up. He kept going on about all the work he did and how he got better prices for the other axles. All of which is irrelevant to the 3 axles he gave away. The owner went in the back initially and I have a feeling he was making the guy who messed up try and fix his mistake. It was more than a simple mistake. When he brought out the list and saw the items highlighted he knew the axles shouldn't have sold.

 

[cfherrman]

He wants a good reputation and good reviews except he doesn't care about you.

 

[Welder Dave]

The guy that sold them thought he did such a good job and should be rewarded for it. It' kind of like the old adage that it only takes 1 bad review to negate 1000 good reviews. If he doesn't normally handle the selling and invoicing somebody should have been supervising him or double checking what should be going out of the yard.

 

[Welder Dave]

Another update and I'm hoping the auction house tries to cheat me out of more money. It will go straight to court if they do. I went and told the guy from the trailer shop, who is selling the axles with me, about the axles that were basically given away. He said the owner of another trailer shop right beside them would have paid up to $800 each for the 10K torsion axles. He said the backing plates and brakes are worth $250 by themselves. He tried to bid but it wouldn't let him. He may have missed the 1st auction though. However since it said subject to he figured there's no way we'd let them go for $10. He even went next door to talk to the guy selling them with me. Too bad I didn't know this before I went to the auction house to find out how the heck they gave the axles away. I would have demanded they get the axles back. There's no way they would have given me $1600 and I don't care if they would have got negative reviews or it damaged their reputation. Was the guy at the auction house in cohoots with the buyer?? Sure makes you wonder. Damn!

 

[Old Doug]

I remember something my Dad said 48 years ago he said " Auctions are to get rid of stuff not necessarily make money " I would never sell anything at a auction i didnt want to giveaway. To many things to stress out about no need to make more.

 

[Welder Dave]

If you have the right stuff you can make money at auctions. The axles brought about $10K all together despite the major %$#@! up.