junior
Well-Known Member
why cat uses hydrostatic drive(ex. 973) and komatsu uses torqflow(ex. D75S-5 or D155S-1), what are the superior and weak points of them. thanks for answers...
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hydrostatic drive and torqflow!
- Thread starter junior
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Deas Plant
Senior Member
Hydrostatic Vs Torqflow.
Hi, Junior.
Cat brought out the hydrostatic transmissions in the 943, 953,
963 and 973 in about 1970 which just co-incidentally was around about the same year that Kummagutsa last updated the technology in their track loaders. You may notice that 'Brand X' doesn't sell a lot of track loaders these days. Mostly 'cos they don't make 'em any more. I think the last model they made was the D75S and it was about 20 odd years old technology in about 2000. I just had a look at the product line for USA and there is NOT ONE track loader listed there. I theeeenk that says something.
Hydrostatic transmissions have a couple of pumps and a couple of hydrostatic drive motors, no transmission with clutch packs, no steering clutches or brakes, no crown wheel and pinion.
It is easier to set up contra-rotating drives for spin turns with hydrostatic drive than with a gear drive and track loaders LOVE that extra manouverability. So do the one or two hydrostatic dozers that I've run.
Hope this helps.
Hi, Junior.
Cat brought out the hydrostatic transmissions in the 943, 953,
963 and 973 in about 1970 which just co-incidentally was around about the same year that Kummagutsa last updated the technology in their track loaders. You may notice that 'Brand X' doesn't sell a lot of track loaders these days. Mostly 'cos they don't make 'em any more. I think the last model they made was the D75S and it was about 20 odd years old technology in about 2000. I just had a look at the product line for USA and there is NOT ONE track loader listed there. I theeeenk that says something.
Hydrostatic transmissions have a couple of pumps and a couple of hydrostatic drive motors, no transmission with clutch packs, no steering clutches or brakes, no crown wheel and pinion.
It is easier to set up contra-rotating drives for spin turns with hydrostatic drive than with a gear drive and track loaders LOVE that extra manouverability. So do the one or two hydrostatic dozers that I've run.
Hope this helps.
Deas, I wasn't aware that the Cat hydrostatic loaders dated back to 1970? I recall delivering and working on new 955's and 977's in the late seventies and into the eighties. Did Cat produce both crawler loader technologies at the same time?
Junior - Komatsu built a rear engined hydrostat loader the D66-1 (like the one in the photograph) and was phased out around 1998 I think. There are a few in Canada and are a fine crawler but they are pretty complex.
The D57S, D75S and D155S are much simpler and the newer ones such as -5 were updated with later Komatsu engine but I think they chose to drop out of the limited market and concentrate their development on other products.
Komatsu still made the D75S up until about two years ago and they are very reliable and easy to repair.
If I was buying an older high hour machine I would prefer Cat or Komatsu's 'old' technology over the hydrostat system myself.
Junior - Komatsu built a rear engined hydrostat loader the D66-1 (like the one in the photograph) and was phased out around 1998 I think. There are a few in Canada and are a fine crawler but they are pretty complex.
The D57S, D75S and D155S are much simpler and the newer ones such as -5 were updated with later Komatsu engine but I think they chose to drop out of the limited market and concentrate their development on other products.
Komatsu still made the D75S up until about two years ago and they are very reliable and easy to repair.
If I was buying an older high hour machine I would prefer Cat or Komatsu's 'old' technology over the hydrostat system myself.
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junior
Well-Known Member
both thanks, but any adventages of torqflow? (one of it is simple system i understood.)
wulf, i already love the old ones, not the rear engined models. in the same time they are totally wider than the newer rear engined ones, so that they are staticaly better especially on slopes.
wulf, i already love the old ones, not the rear engined models. in the same time they are totally wider than the newer rear engined ones, so that they are staticaly better especially on slopes.
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Deas Plant
Senior Member
Apology.
Hi, Folks.
Wulf, thank you for bringing that slip to my attention. It should have read about 1980, NOT 1970, that Cat brought out their hydrostatic loader range. I don't have the exact year but it was around that time.
Having said that, John Deere may have beaten Cat to the draw. The first hydrostatic drives that I operated - other than excavators - were a JD 850 dozer and a JD 755 track loader, in about April, 1982, (I theenk) at a product launch field day in Sydney, Australia. Both JD and Cat would have released their lines in the U.S. before that. And the JD 755 loader was a front-engined machine.
Thanks again, Wulf.
Hi, Folks.
Wulf, thank you for bringing that slip to my attention. It should have read about 1980, NOT 1970, that Cat brought out their hydrostatic loader range. I don't have the exact year but it was around that time.
Having said that, John Deere may have beaten Cat to the draw. The first hydrostatic drives that I operated - other than excavators - were a JD 850 dozer and a JD 755 track loader, in about April, 1982, (I theenk) at a product launch field day in Sydney, Australia. Both JD and Cat would have released their lines in the U.S. before that. And the JD 755 loader was a front-engined machine.
Thanks again, Wulf.
d4c24a
Senior Member
jcb
hello deas did you never have the pleasure of operating the jcb 100 series rear engined tracked loader it was introduced around 1971 and i think it was hydrostatic drive but will have to check .it did not have a long production life and was said to be before its time so to speak they are quite rare now in the uk i have some info somewhere and will try to find it tonight :thumbsup
hello deas did you never have the pleasure of operating the jcb 100 series rear engined tracked loader it was introduced around 1971 and i think it was hydrostatic drive but will have to check .it did not have a long production life and was said to be before its time so to speak they are quite rare now in the uk i have some info somewhere and will try to find it tonight :thumbsup
d4c24a
Senior Member
picture and info
heres a picture and a little info on the jcb
the new jcb 110 was seen by mr bamford
"as one of the most significant JCB achievments in the past 15 years"
and hailed by the specialist press.
it was the worlds first hydrostatic crawler and one the desighn council award
although revolutionary in all respects it was later abandoned when the crawler loader market went into sharp decline.
thanks graham:thumbsup
heres a picture and a little info on the jcb
the new jcb 110 was seen by mr bamford
"as one of the most significant JCB achievments in the past 15 years"
and hailed by the specialist press.
it was the worlds first hydrostatic crawler and one the desighn council award
although revolutionary in all respects it was later abandoned when the crawler loader market went into sharp decline.
thanks graham:thumbsup
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d4c... hope you don't mind me stepping in with 'an anorak moment' but according to a JCB book that I own 'JCB Golden Jubilee Album 1945-1995' the first JCB crawler loader was built as the TS4 in 1968. It was hydrostatic drive and was Perkins powered... maybe another British First eh?
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Jcb 110
Hi, D4C24A.
Yes, I have heard of the JCB rear-engined loaders but no, I have never had the dubious pleasure of running one. To be quite honest, I have never even seen one outside of a few photos and I do not know of any existing anywhere in Australia. However, Australia IS a big paddock and I don't neccessarily know all of the machines that came to our long shores.
I will also be totally honest with you regarding JCB machines. While Joseph Charlie was an innovative thinker in some ways, not all of his 'toys' lived up to his organisation's promotional blurb for them, at least here in DownUnder. A high percentage of the JCB excavators that I came across and also quite a few of the JCB backhoes seemed to have problems with hydraulic oil cooling in our warmish summers.
And what kind of a dipstick would design joystick controls with the single functions on the diagonals of the lever movement instead of fore and aft or sideways?
Now I know that there are some happy JCB owners and users out there. I'm just glad that they have had most of my share of them. If I ever have to run another one, I will rate it too soon. But that's just my 0.02 cents worth.
Hough built a rear-engined track loader way before JCB, the HL12, and it was basically a tracked version of that company's 4wd loaders. I theeenk that was back in the 1950's somewhere and it was a mechanical drive. I have some photos of it here somewhere in another PC. Time permitting, I will attempt to dig them up and post them.
Hi, D4C24A.
Yes, I have heard of the JCB rear-engined loaders but no, I have never had the dubious pleasure of running one. To be quite honest, I have never even seen one outside of a few photos and I do not know of any existing anywhere in Australia. However, Australia IS a big paddock and I don't neccessarily know all of the machines that came to our long shores.
I will also be totally honest with you regarding JCB machines. While Joseph Charlie was an innovative thinker in some ways, not all of his 'toys' lived up to his organisation's promotional blurb for them, at least here in DownUnder. A high percentage of the JCB excavators that I came across and also quite a few of the JCB backhoes seemed to have problems with hydraulic oil cooling in our warmish summers.
And what kind of a dipstick would design joystick controls with the single functions on the diagonals of the lever movement instead of fore and aft or sideways?
Now I know that there are some happy JCB owners and users out there. I'm just glad that they have had most of my share of them. If I ever have to run another one, I will rate it too soon. But that's just my 0.02 cents worth.
Hough built a rear-engined track loader way before JCB, the HL12, and it was basically a tracked version of that company's 4wd loaders. I theeenk that was back in the 1950's somewhere and it was a mechanical drive. I have some photos of it here somewhere in another PC. Time permitting, I will attempt to dig them up and post them.
d4c24a
Senior Member
AH jcb controls
hello wulf deas , i have that book somewhere wulf but cant find it at the moment
yes deas jcb controls you love them or hate them personly i quite like them and have no problem going from jcb to iso + in a track machine,but we had a couple of "operators" i use the term loosely where i work who could not drive a jcb only kubotas so the paid to have the controls changed around:Banghead so when you have operated jcb,s for 20 odd years and you jump in one and it wont do want you want it to it makes it interesting for a day or two:crying cheers graham:thumbsup
hello wulf deas , i have that book somewhere wulf but cant find it at the moment
yes deas jcb controls you love them or hate them personly i quite like them and have no problem going from jcb to iso + in a track machine,but we had a couple of "operators" i use the term loosely where i work who could not drive a jcb only kubotas so the paid to have the controls changed around:Banghead so when you have operated jcb,s for 20 odd years and you jump in one and it wont do want you want it to it makes it interesting for a day or two:crying cheers graham:thumbsup
JimInOz
Senior Member
JCB Drott
Hi again DEAS,
I actually got offered a JCB drott about 7 years ago,in the hills East of Melbourne.
A plumber owned it ,but it wasn't going....he wanted 2K for it,but I got scared as it looked like a money pit waiting to eat my wallet.
I shoulda bought it for the curiosity value.
Never seen one before or since.
Jim
Hi again DEAS,
I actually got offered a JCB drott about 7 years ago,in the hills East of Melbourne.
A plumber owned it ,but it wasn't going....he wanted 2K for it,but I got scared as it looked like a money pit waiting to eat my wallet.
I shoulda bought it for the curiosity value.
Never seen one before or since.
Jim
ih100
Senior Member
Hi. I actually drove a JCB rear-engine back in the '80's. I was real proud at the time, the boss thought I was the only one who could drive it, you know...the reality was I was the only one who would drive it. It was a pig to drive, with awkward controls, and a killer on the forearms after a few hours. O rolled it and wrote it off, everyone on the company was pleased, except my ex-boss.
Interesting, this, on a trip around the JCB factory, their guy tried to deny they'd ever built the thing. It was certainly a first, a hydrostatic machine that was harder to drive than any manual I've operated.
Interesting, this, on a trip around the JCB factory, their guy tried to deny they'd ever built the thing. It was certainly a first, a hydrostatic machine that was harder to drive than any manual I've operated.