H Series Cat scrapers

[cmrhoades1]

im wondering with as narrow as a 20 series scrapers are if the cylinders on the outside like the bigger machines do how you will be able to see in the bowl? i wonder if thats the reason that cat has always put them on the inside on the smaller machines. I have been told by my bosses that got invited to put thier input in on these new scrapers that the steering will sits inline with the dash on a G so the steering wheel will be infront of you if you are seating tilted in the cab. im also told that they did away with the joystick and went to a palm style controls like in the newer finish dozers. i also heard that your guage panel in the middle is a gps screen with the guages on the outside. batteries are also said to be back near the transmission

 

[Hollywood627G]

They needed to reposition the gauge cluster and redesign the hood on the G's. Both would obstruct the view of the pushblock and bale. Idk about the new controls though

 

[vapor300]

Im glad they got rid of the joystick, i hated it, i almost prefer they go back to the F series style controls!

 

[Hollywood627G]

Ever watch the vid of the hand movements on an M blade compared to the H? Joystick is way more efficient and less stress on the operator. They should have kept the F engines though

 

[vapor300]

Yes i have ran an 14H blade and i have ran an 14M blade, i prefer the M! But for scrapers i prefer the F series controls for the 27's, i had Trimble GPS on my 27 and i felt alot more precise with the bowl movement on the single lever then i do with the joystick. But i hated the E series controls.

 

[cmrhoades1]

if you cant get good with the new "fly by wire" controls you better get out of this business because you arnt going to have a choice sooner or later. Pilot controls were messy and hard to maintain. I for one am all about the power of the G series here in Nebraska in the softer conditions a G will walk circles around our E's and F's in the mud. doesnt matter its a 21 or a 27. the G's seem to "lug" though it better. on a good road the older scrapers willl outrun them tho wide open. best i ever got a G to was 36 mile and hour downhill and loaded. that is bolderline oversped.

 

[vapor300]

Didnt say i couldnt be good on one, just said i felt more precise with the old style, And are 627F's we had were turned up and i would put them up against any G series 27! But i havent ran a G series 27, just a G series 623 and they fell real underpowered!

 

[cmrhoades1]

it all depends in my oppinion if you get used to thier powerband. say if you are runnig down into the fill and it is alittle soft i will always let the scraper downshift till it hits third then press the transmission hold. once the tranny hold is on the machine will lug itself out alot more then it will without it on. will not downshift into second until almost 1000 rpm. this helps you for 2 reasons in my oppinion 1 you lose hp once you grab 2nd because the G's have variable hp motors and 2nd as soon as you drop to second it is a convertor gear and you torque increases causing you to spin.
i agree with the turned up part that a F might perform better as for that i cant say my employer doesnt believe in "turn it up" Im guessing with the cost of fuel and parts alot of people dont anymore either

 

[Hollywood627G]

it all depends in my oppinion if you get used to thier powerband. say if you are runnig down into the fill and it is alittle soft i will always let the scraper downshift till it hits third then press the transmission hold. once the tranny hold is on the machine will lug itself out alot more then it will without it on. will not downshift into second until almost 1000 rpm. this helps you for 2 reasons in my oppinion 1 you lose hp once you grab 2nd because the G's have variable hp motors and 2nd as soon as you drop to second it is a convertor gear and you torque increases causing you to spin.

Huh? If you went that slow in a fill id get behind you and push you. Never let your rpms bog when filling. If anything let off the rear engine and and run the front, use the rear to keep the rpms up by pumping the pedal. Loss of hp means more time and less loads. Why downshift to 2nd in a fill? Dont tell me you slow down and downshift to 2nd before hooking up, that crap irritates me. Had a guy doing that and had a scraper go down that day so we were running 3's. He would slow to second to hook up, so i called and told him he better learn how to hook up faster or id push him into the front scraper (he had 7 more years experience than i on a push-pull). After two loads i caught him in 5th gear and pushed him into the front guy, i hit the brakes just before he got him. Ya'll might flame me for it, but it was hilarious!

 

[cmrhoades1]

i would not pump the rear pedal on a g series scraper it is a electronic throttle there for no reason to pump just back off alittle. we are talking about the fill not the cut i doubt you push pull to unload in the fill........If you do maybe you know something i dont and lets here why? hehe. But in all seriousness the reason we are in 3rd or even 2nd in the fill is in eastern nebraska the soil is usually wet enough we fight it with 27's and the fills are almost always borderline passing so thats how you get fills soft enough where you do not have enough power to go any faster. sometimes its good too though and in that case dump in 7th or 8th WFO!!!!!!!!!

 

[cmrhoades1]

your story of running 3 togethor makes me laugh tho and i love it. thats exactly what i would have done and if he didnt like it then i would have gone back to push pulling with my guy and left him to self load. when any of us would get asked why he is self loading i would say he couldnt keep up. lol. or you could have put him in back and just went about your business and probably just ran away from him, in a round or two, and then he would have looked bad.

 

[vapor300]

Why would you tag up in 5th gear??? My partner was always on me and i never lost him, and when he tagged up he would tag up in 2nd, the first scraper should be already starting to cut therefore the 2nd scraper should have no problem catching the 1st scraper, the 3rd scraper should have no problem catching the 2nd scraper, and you know how hard it is on the transmission to down shift when its got a load on it. And CMR is dead on, around MO we would get into real gummy dirt, and there is no way you can dump that crap and make it look good if you didnt dump it in 2nd, matter of fact i think the highest gear id dump in is 4th, and i always long dump and my partner always short dumps, that way we are turning out of the fill at the same time, and he would never lose me, You know your watching rokie scraper hands when the lead guy always short dumps.

 

[Hollywood627G]

It only needs to look good when its on grade, otherwise, move the dirt! I dont really pay attention to what gear im in when dumping. It matters more on how far and RPMs. If youre waiting for the machine to downshift to second, then hook up, is too slow. You should be hooked up before the lead scraper starts cutting. He should never lose you because he should be on your arse.

 

[vapor300]

??? The lead scraper should always be cutting by the time the back scraper tags up, And are cycle times where never slow, we were the fastest push pull team that alot of ppl had ever seen. Moved 25,000 yards in 4 days with a pair of 27's. Its very easy for the back scraper to lose the lead scraper if the guy running lead is a moroon, its the led scrapers job to make sure his partner doesnt lose him, or have to run his balls off to catch up!

Only needs to look good when its on grade??? LOL! I HATE THAT ATTITUDE! Your cut and fill should always look good, thats what a good scraper hand is. Ive seen your type, will goudge a 3 foot hole and fill will look like a bomb went off just to get a few more loads, then it rains and you cant work for a week. How many loads do you think you lose in that week???

 

[BrianHay]

In my humble opinion, coming into the cut there is no reason at all to hook up in any taller gear than second. Second gear is the gear to load in and I don't need to be pushed until I am well into my cut. I come in cleaning up behind us/cutting to grade as fast as I can without duck walking. I don't want to be pushed faster for many different reasons.

The perfect partner for me hooks up after I have down shifted to second, before I start cutting heavy, locks the dif lock and keeps it pinned wide open.

I am another one that likes my cut and fill neat all the time. At any time a storm rolls in a quick drag of the windrows and it will drain. Not only that it keeps production up. I can pull into a neat cut or fill a lot faster than I can one that is a mess without beating the crap out of myself and my machine.

 

[vapor300]

^^EXCATLY^^ No need to tag up in any other gear then second!

 

[Buckethead]

I am another one that likes my cut and fill neat all the time. At any time a storm rolls in a quick drag of the windrows and it will drain. Not only that it keeps production up. I can pull into a neat cut or fill a lot faster than I can one that is a mess without beating the crap out of myself and my machine.

I agree 110%. A lot less time lost due to weather that way.

 

[cmrhoades1]

well as far to cleaning up behind yourself all the time that why you have a blade he should make a revolution of the haul road, fill, and cut almost everytime you do so he should cover all that ground. so you dont have to slow down at all. we do alot of pushpulling in 3rd here in Nebraska because its so wet and muddy. fast and thin never loosing momentum and only getting half loads at best. better to haul half loads all day consistantly and not "tear" up a muddy cut any more then you have to.

But all i said,,and back to topic, was that you are always better ,other then loading, most times you keep a G series machine in 3RD or above because thery are varibale horse machines. this isnt "how to push pull" or "how to run a scraper" it was WHAT DO YOU THINK OR KNOW ABOUT THE H SERIES"

 

[cmrhoades1]

better then getting stuck i meant and stoping production to have 3 or 4 more scrapers come get you or a dozer with a winch...

I left that out of the above. here in the mud we have to make sacrafices just to get through it.

 

[BrianHay]

I don't think any topic in HEF (or most forums) actually stays on topic lol ....the original topic sparks conversation that is some what related and keeps going, not an entirely bad thing.

I do on occasion load in taller gears to keep up momentum. In mud like you say, built many miles of road and subdivisions in muskeg. And as well as in dead, desert like sand. Mud and sand you load in much the same way. Skim it with a thin even cut and get out with what you can. If all you can get is 1 yard without getting stuck, your loaded. Never ever pump load, especially when push pulling.

As for the grader doing all the clean up. I am used to working on large spreads and there is no way the grader can keep up blading after every round behind each team. In a cut that is kept neat I don't have to slow down to keep it neat. I can push pull a full load with my partner and then next round drag that same cut in 4th gear or better just knocking down the windrows on the way into our next cut.