OK I'm a long time Dozer guy been running for about 20 years now. My question is iv been out of work for a few months now,Today i filled out an app for a job and they asked if i used GPS and i said no but how hard could it be to learn. I pick things up fast i'm no dummy,iv done site lay out with a GPS unit, So how hard is it?? Thanks in advance
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GPS ON Dozer
- Thread starter waterman
- Start date
Its actually pretty tricky to get good at it, but once you do it will make you a better, more productive dozer hand. It will be almost impossible if nobody is willing to teach you either. I trained a guy lately on topcon gps and it took him about 2 months to get it all figured out but now he is damn good. Do you know whay type system it is? I have ran both trimble and topcon and can answer just about every question you would have, so if you got any questions just ask
Don't know what they use didn't ask,,the guy that ask was just handing my app. over to the person that does the hiring. But being a finish blade man now and have always been and never had any issues being fast or productive,,,but im old school i guess. But never hurts to learn something new.
Huey Jr.
Member
I've ran trimble for years. And there is still crap I'm figuring out. Essentially you have to be computer savy in order to run a GPS machine effectively. Whether it's a hoe, dozer, or grader they all bring their unique challenges with the GPS equipment. Yes in the end you do just push the button and go forward. However there is a lot of set up and tweaking before, during, and after. You have to know you are on the right model, the model is correct, blade wear, satellites are accurate enough, how much to cut by, adjust a tenth up or down, if you are receiving off the right pole, base station set up and diagnose, machine set up and diagnose, and much, much more. I would say learning the GPS was just as hard to learn how to operate the dozer I was in. And in a grader its even worse. It's always good to learn new skills in our trade, but don't ever underestimate the difficulty of anything.
JimBruce42
Senior Member
I don't have any real experience with TopCon, but Trimble systems are pretty easy to pick up, whether it is manual or automatic. I would hope that wherever you applied would take the time to help you, or at least give a crash course in the system they use. If you can grade using grade stakes, GPS will just make it easier for you, it's like always having a grade stake right there in the cab with you everywhere you go. Automatics can make the tedious actions a little faster and easier, but in my opinion it will never be as fast as the human element, because the GPS can't see a pile, deeper cut, or maybe a rock coming up that you'll have to compensate for.
I don't know how much help this link will be, it's more of a tutorial on GPS in general than it is about the systems, but ya never know.
http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.shtml
I don't know how much help this link will be, it's more of a tutorial on GPS in general than it is about the systems, but ya never know.
http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.shtml
bigshow
Senior Member
I just turn the damned stuff off, and laugh when the grade Forman says that the gps sure does make nice grade......it's not that hard but I just don't like it and don't want to be like the rest of the seat covers who have been spoiled with the "easy button" and now can't hit the ground with the blade without it. My $.02.
JimBruce42
Senior Member
I know a few of our dozer guys that prefer not to use the automatics, if it's an option. That is the great thing, you can use the GPS for grades and not push the "easy button" if you don't want to.
Anyone looking for a real good 12 E motor grader or Letourneau Double drum roller 42 x 48. Blade has new engine, clutch, diffrential and tandems on good rubber. Giving up dirt moving to run over the road. 32 years in the dirt, guess no work and just want to do something new. They have those qualcomms and gps units too, nothing quite like reading the rand mcnally and road signs though, the gps is a good tool for checking routes and finding stuff not on the roadmaps. I ran 44 states some 250,000 miles the last 20 months and kind of liked it, so bought a truck and going to get a reefer and haul some meat to the Bronx and Brooklyn. May get on the coast to coast runs down the road, as I kind of liked it with the tankers, out two weeks at a time and see the whole country. I just watch people move dirt anymore, but actually jumped on a 627G for Ames to help them finish up a interstate project until my mc authority becomes active.
Bluetop Man
Senior Member
HueyJr., careful there, this is what takes out the beginners. Depending on the material, of course, a tenth cut is often too much for a machine to handle. Best increment the clicks closer together. Then if you can handle more cut or more fill, just take it up or down a few clicks. But keep the basic click spread small, and adjust on the go. My experience with GPS was rather limited and with some early equipment, but this is the single one thing that tripped up otherwise good operators, trying to cut or fill to much. That, and not knowing what to do with material in general. The latter doesn't sound like the OP's problem.
Huey Jr.
Member
Yeah I was just giving him a general idea of what to expect. All of my family's gps equipment is less than 3 years old. So we are pretty up to date in that regards. With most of the gps equipment all you can ask for accuracy is a tenth of a foot any way. However with different days and different materials the equipment reacts differently with the auto control on. With enough seat time, any good operator can get accustomed to the machine and the gps equipment on it. Like the old adage: practice makes perfect.
mockman
gps is a tool that makes a good operator out of a bad one, would work good for those farmer john deere double pans that cannot negotiate slopes or grade stakes, a total rookie to the business excuse, that is modern day earthmoving to me, people that know how to move dirt are no longer needed as rookies with the helpof gps and john deere, now can move dirt. saves on grade foremans and actual decent operators that have experience and an eye for grade. same as trucking or fighting a war, computers guide the machines, shoot the arrows and true skill is no longer needed
gps is a tool that makes a good operator out of a bad one, would work good for those farmer john deere double pans that cannot negotiate slopes or grade stakes, a total rookie to the business excuse, that is modern day earthmoving to me, people that know how to move dirt are no longer needed as rookies with the helpof gps and john deere, now can move dirt. saves on grade foremans and actual decent operators that have experience and an eye for grade. same as trucking or fighting a war, computers guide the machines, shoot the arrows and true skill is no longer needed
JimBruce42
Senior Member
Mockman, I wouldn't say that GPS takes away the need for a good skilled operator. If anything it helps speed up those operators. Yeah it helps the rookies catch on faster, but if you are doing bulk slot dozing, or heavy cuts, or the GPS signal goes out for an hour, you still need to know how to run the machine. I really have to agree with bigshow, that automatic button is as much a curse as a cure in the field. I look at it like this, not every day or every job is going to have GPS, I'm still going to be expected to perform and do my job as an equipment operator, I better be able to. Just my $.02:drinkup
Bluetop Man
Senior Member
Never having done so, I speculate that I would prefer to run GPS on a six way dozer than a motor grader. Those G.D. poles look like they can't hit the cab on a dozer like they can on a grader. It costs $2800 to repair one pod. Don't ask me how I know this.
ps, It cost over $18,000 to fix one GPS system that tore up on another job.
ps, It cost over $18,000 to fix one GPS system that tore up on another job.
bigshow
Senior Member
You're right, those bright yellow poles somehow have a way of finding their way into a cab or even the main frame, although I can say I am VERY consciensious and this hasn't happened to me, luckily. The poles on a dozer can find their way into trees, bridge beams, and even into the side of a hoe bucket, bad things happen to those too, again, thankfully nothing I did or was involved in but like anything, the heartbeat in the seat must pay attention.
As far as the o.p., the basics are pretty simple, I don't know the inner dynamics of gps, such as p-dop and Russian satellites, and all that mumbo jumbo, but learn how to follow the contour lines and what they represent, learn how to decipher the cross section views, and you should be all set. There are intuitive light bars that dictate where your blade is in reference the grade and whether the G.E.T. Must go up/down or on grade. A lot of people make it out to be gypsy magic but it's pretty simple, don't be intimidated, if I can figure it out any one can, best of luck to you.
As far as the o.p., the basics are pretty simple, I don't know the inner dynamics of gps, such as p-dop and Russian satellites, and all that mumbo jumbo, but learn how to follow the contour lines and what they represent, learn how to decipher the cross section views, and you should be all set. There are intuitive light bars that dictate where your blade is in reference the grade and whether the G.E.T. Must go up/down or on grade. A lot of people make it out to be gypsy magic but it's pretty simple, don't be intimidated, if I can figure it out any one can, best of luck to you.
catken
Well-Known Member
Don't be afraid of the GPS. A very good operator just gets better with it. Not only that, you don't have to have a grade checker standing there telling you your 1 or 2 tenths off. Trust me, once you run it, you won't want to be without it. You don't have to be a computor wizard to run it either. Some small training and you'll be just fine. Go for it!
See thats kinda where im at!! I know how to run a blade,,I had a grader guy come to me a few years back that the paving crew brought to the job to run the lot i just graded off and said it was one of the best jobs he had see in awile. Tellme what ya want,,,give me a few stakes and i'll putit on point.
I have no doubt that you can hold grade very well, but you have to have hubs/grade stakes to work from. We're doing more and more jobs (construction staking) that are GPS graded & paved. No matter how good you are you can't hold grade if you don't have anything to go by.
bigshow
Senior Member
When we are grading, there is always someone wandering around with a rover, playing Picasso, and just making sure everything is kosher. I have found that the machines do have a variance that is not found in a rover and we do make better grade with a rover and paint than a gps guided machine. Many people make the mistake of thinking that the gps makes perfect grade, it does NOT, there are many variables that come into play. A hand still has to know how to make grade, whether it's with a stick and string, laser, robotic total stations, or gps. It's like the old timers that hated hydraulics and said they would never last, cable and gear drive was the only way to move dirt, before them it was mules and slip scrapers. Now look at us with our fancy schmancy hydraulics, God only knows what's next, but either way, you got to keep with the times or someone else will and you'll be on the outside looking in.
most states now are requiring a tolerance of less then .03 on dirt subgrade for highways now, and i do not think it is possible to carry that grade manually. IN, TX, LA, AR are the state i have worked in that require this tolerance
catken
Well-Known Member
There are states now that require you to have electronics for grading or your not allowed to even bid projects. They also are requiring you to do all your own staking. You would be surprised how many of these new operators can't read a grade stake but can read the screen on the GPS or Laser. All the old hands will have to learn or sorry to say will be left behind. I for one just love it (and I'm old also). Adapting to it isn't that big a deal. For the final finish - electronics will win out all the time.