Going IUOE... which way

[milling_drum]

Further clarification includes that most public works contracts are union contractor associated, meaning that its manditory the contract is bid on by contractors who use ONLY union labor/operators.

Mack above has pointed out a typical north/south contrast, southern wages for operators is extremely low compared to northern wages, I doubt his wage shift has much at all to do with union issues but more to geographical location and local policy regarding prevailing wages. South has very little control over prevailing wage which is already lower then relative costs of living, whereas the northern prevailing wage scales match living stanards in a far more accurate manner.

Unions are good for some, not so good for others, its funny in the Netherlands that membership isn't manditory, thats very interesting. In plenty of areas of America you MUST hold union membership to operate heavy equipment or you will be removed.

 

[AtlasRob]

Unions are good for some, not so good for others, its funny in the Netherlands that membership isn't manditory, thats very interesting. In plenty of areas of America you MUST hold union membership to operate heavy equipment or you will be removed.

There is no such restriction in the UK either.

 

[jmason]

Just wanted to point out some misconceptions about union construction work! It would be illegal in the United States for any goverment agency to stipulate a contractor must be union to bid on thier job. Prevailing wage is sometimes a union wage but only when the greatest percentage of work is done by contractors signed with a union. In the south, union contractors do not have the greatest percentage of work so prevailing wages in the south are lower. The southern states are all right-to-work states which means a worker does not have to belong to the union if the employer has a contract with a union. Most northern and western states are considered closed shop states and to be employed with a company that has a signed union agreement means you must join the union or you will be removed from the job site. A project labor agreement signed with a goverment agency results in any company bidding on the job and if wining the bid will hire from a union out-of-work list after their own employees join the union for that project only. This helps to prevent a company from the south that pays lower wages going into a area with higher wages and undermining companies within that area with cheaper wages. These laws have been on the books since the early 1900's.I hope that clears up the differences between prevailing wages, project labor agreements, union and nonunion requirements on construction jobs.

I an employed by the Operating Engineers in the Construction Training department!

 

[milling_drum]

Few examples of how it does and does not work.

In Fairport, NY. Theres an outfit called Villager Contruction. They are involved in multiple phases of site development, paving, sewer/watermain, milling. It is easy to walk into Villagers office and apply for a Job, if qualified and they need your skills they will hire you as a prevailing wage employee. Alot of the contracts they are on are city/county/federal. NO mention of union or association is required.

Go 90 miles west into Buffalo, NY. All the contractors running the exact same operations will NOT talk to you unless you are an operating engineer. Villager spend quite a bit of time working in Buffalo as well and NONE of their operators are operating engineers nor have they ever been required too make such concessions to hold the jobs they have. Villager also have an extensive asphalt milling operation in the south eastern states, the pay their operators gets pales anything paid by southern outfits. Right now in Georgia, Villager have 5 milling machines on I-95.

Union membership is manditory in the NYC Boroughs, an operating engineer visits job sites to ensure the operators have a book and leave once they have satisfied this requirement, if the outcome is that an operator does not have a book, they will not be back the next day. On long island the local out there is not as pushy, they will simply attempt to recruit the operator to sign with them.

I'm quite sure this is the case in many areas of America and wonder the legality of it in many cases. While down south its horrible to see an operator making petty wages to do the exact same job some one else is making $30 an hour on, it exists in FULL effect and isn't about to change.

As for whats legal and what isn't legal, the dollar seems to control legal issues here. The Government has very little control and they don't care too unless it directly benefits them. Good and bad everywhere.

 

[jmason]

Reply to Milling Drum,

Would have to see NYC boroughs written regulation requireing a equipment operator to be a member of the operating engineers. I believe you may be confusing wording "operating engineer" to that of licensing requirment. A subcontractor subing from a union signed contractor's would require union operators due to contract subletting language. If its illegal, in AMERICA it can be proven in a court of law, just ask a labor attorney! Too many unproven charges too often for too long!!!

 

[milling_drum]

Operating Engineer terminology varys from area to area. Some areas it means exactly as you have it, other areas it means; go to the hall and sign up or get lost.

Requirements in Buffalo, NY and NYC are almost exactly the same. Whats REALLY funny about that is BOTH locals have recently had serious shake ups, meaning the management are in jail for the practices of forcing contractors to use union members and other not so savory practices. The international Brotherhood is in charge in Buffalo right now, not sure about NYC but they will not see anyone walking in, you must have an appointment. The lobby there resembles a prison.

Much as I'd love to respect the term's "courts" and "laws", Its impossible to believe that system helps the common worker when disadvantaged, a person would die of starvation awaiting action or be forced into some form of government assistance. Neither works, its necessary to look elsewhere and just keep going.

Thankfully the unions do ensure some form of decent prevailing wages in the northern regions.

 

[jmason]

Milling Drum,

I see only accusations without any facts. Licensing equipment operators exist in other parts of the country besides New York City. Prevaling wages laws exist in every state in the US!. When human beings break the law in the US whether they be a minister, goverment employee, company CEO, newspaper reporter, union member, solder, or everyday Joe, they are punished!! Ask a 40 year member of the IUOE if the industry has been good to them!! Many wunna-be operators who don't get accepted into the industry can't eccept it because you must be "Simply The Best" to get the highest wages!!

 

[milling_drum]

It's all good.

I make an extremely good "prevailing wage" running milling machines during the summer months and the union no longer can shut me out due to the fact I am mobile, which they aren't. Locals vary on a number of requirements. Many union halls I have been to easily accept asphalt mill operators because they are hard to find, when they realize I am from out of town it makes things a little more difficult but they know the value of having one availble and will make amends if I am willing to make amends. Old news.

Using the state of New York does not mean all the info is confined to New York. I mentioned upper New York State which is 9 hours from NYC west. It is also a fact many areas of the Midwest, New England, and so on practice collective bargining agreements with associated contractors bidding on public contracts. I never mentioned a disagreement concerning prevailing wage or tried to maintain it doesn't exist. I know PLENTY of retired operating engineers, some say great things about the union, others don't. Higher wages in the south do NOT mean the best at all because it does not exist down there.

In legal terms, we had nothing to do with the discussion of punishments until YOU mentioned it, it had to do with the right of the government to specify union labor, I did not disagree with you. America has more prisons than any other country in the world. Justice isn't debatable with that being a fact.

Best I get out of this topic before the mods shut it down for us. They aren't fond of disagreements concerning this subject here because they wind up as arguements and I have no intention of that.

 

[stumpjumper83]

One of the main reasons that I'd like to get into the union is because workers have rights.

For instance, an excavation and construction company that does business in the South eastern part of Pa did the following....

When the housing markets came to a halt, so did the developing of housing developments. This made for alot of extra manpower and machines and nothing for them to do.

So the company managment did the following, laid off 1/3 of its employees, fired another 1/3, and told the remaining 1/3 that pay was cut by 10% or you can join the other 2/3's.

How do you like them apples??

 

[Steve Frazier]

uhhh.....stumpjumper???? Have you by any chance watched any news programs over the past year??? Or read a newspaper???

 

[stinkycat]

Their are two IUOE branches Dirt and Power Plant and Boiler operators and in some areas you must be licensed by the city or state to be a Operating Engineer to operate any heated pressure vessel over 15 PSI and any power producing unit

 

[stumpjumper83]

So I sent my application in this morning... we will see I guess.

Here are my thoughts, because I've been mainly self taught in operating equipment, a little formal training can't hurt.

Maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, or I skipped a step somewhere. Anyway I have G.I. Bill money to cover apprenticeship cost, and I haven't found any other good use for them.

I'm suposed to get a letter sometime next monthe letting me know when my test day is....

Yes, I know thats its happening everywhere steve, but the fact of the matter is, nobody took 10% off my bills. And besides, it isn't right to do that to your employees.

 

[milling_drum]

The protections of union shops are a great thing. Without protection some companies really enjoy getting over on stiffing employees.

Other concerns that exist is the lack of union involvement in area which are dominated by union rules. An operator running heavy equipment which is covered under guidelines specified by the local union is NOT helped in any way by the union, not even to the point of prevailing wage.

The Government had intiatially promised to fix this but of course it never happened and the unions really could care less unless it benefits them directly. This needs to be changed.

 

[CM1995]

Yes, I know thats its happening everywhere steve, but the fact of the matter is, nobody took 10% off my bills. And besides, it isn't right to do that to your employees.

Well I have been in a similar situation. It's really simple and it has nothing to do with unethical treatment of employees by employers, here's how it goes:

Company's main bread and butter is moving dirt and putting in subdivisions
Subdivision work doesn't slow down, it SLAMS TO A STOP overnight, with banks withholding loan funding and putting some contractors in a serious cash pinch
Company adjusts as best as possible, quickly to expand on more commercial work and small demo jobs (whatever comes along)
Commercial work is the next domino to fall in the worst economic event since the Great Depression
Company sheds as much iron and overhead as possible but keeps all employees on board, trying to compete against other companies that are bidding jobs for the cost of materials
When there is no work coming through the front door for a while, means no work for employees and no money on Friday for a paycheck.

It's really very simple and has affected thousands of contractors in this Great Recession that has officially lasted for 2.5 years now, in actuality the recession has been going on for more than 3 years. No work = no income = no paychecks

 

[wildhorse trnr]

Hello.

I am over 50, so no union for me.
But, if I could do it all over again I would have gone union.
The sheer crap that goes on in the companies in Texas is unbelievable.
In Texas the push is for Mexican operators, undocumented workers, for a lower price.
So much so that the legit workers have a hard time.
Union is no promise but at least it is a start, better than nothing.

Even the tech jobs are going that way, I have 18 yrs. exp. non-union, and our pay is going backwards due to the flood of undocumented workers. Most companies in Texas are so anti-union you can get fired for even discussing it.

 

[stumpjumper83]

well, on tuesday I spent 6hrs. taking the apprentice operators test... Waiting to see what happens.

 

[milling_drum]

With or without them you will have a job this season. Good luck all the same.

 

[stumpjumper83]

Got a letter in the mail yesterday... I have an interview! I can't wait...

 

[milling_drum]

Thats excellent!!! Congrats!

 

[stumpjumper83]

thanks milling drum, I know it doesn't mean that I'm in, but it is a giant step foreward. I'll tell you all more after the 18th...