Gehl ctl80/Takeuchi tl150 fuel solenoid problem.

[James alex zheltonoga]

My Gehl Ctl 80 quit running while i was clearing some land with a mulcher. I jury rigged the fuel solenoid and got it back to my shop. I traced the wires back to a relay and replaced the relay. The red wire still did not come on with the key. Then i read some forums and they suggested replacing the detector relay. I did that and still no results. All fuses are good. I found that the first relay that i replaced has a small pigtail coming out of it with a red wire a black wire and a red/white wire. if you energize the red wire the solenoid works as it should. I broke down and bought the shop service manual for the wiring diagram but none of the wire colors on the machine math the diagram. anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[thepumpguysc]

The black wire is -ground..
Red wire is low amp run.
White wire is hi amp pull in.. usually from the starter..

 

[heymccall]

Did you change "J" or "K" or both?

 

[heymccall]

J and K are ones that always gave issues, until I resoldered the failed joints within. Ironically, they are the only relays that come apart, to see inside.

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

The black wire is -ground..
Red wire is low amp run.
White wire is hi amp pull in.. usually from the starter..

The black wire is -ground..
Red wire is low amp run.
White wire is hi amp pull in.. usually from the starter..

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

Thank you pump guy,do you know what energizes the red wire?

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

Did you change "J" or "K" or both?
View attachment 276866

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

I replaced K and H

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

J and K are ones that always gave issues, until I resoldered the failed joints within. Ironically, they are the only relays that come apart, to see inside.
View attachment 276867

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

Thanks heymccall, I checked the old relays for broken solder joints before i replaced them.

 

[thepumpguysc]

It looks like A & B r for the solenoid.??
Usually the hi amp pull in is from the starter.. then it switches Thu a relay to low amp HOLD/RUN..

 

[heymccall]

The high amp "pull" is from the Stop solenoid timer. Low amp "hold" is from the Emergency relay.


Schematic attached below.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U da man.!! Thanks for that..

 

[heymccall]

Well, if you think the solder joints are good in "J" and "K", swap them (after marking them, of course.)

You indicated that you changed "H" (detector relay). In 20,000 hours of fleet use among 3 TL150 machines, I've never had to change the "detector relay". "J" and "K", however, I've changed several, before I started taking them apart for resoldering. We've had TL150 machines since 2003.

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

Thanks i will try switching J and K again. You sent me a picture of the K relay. When i put 12 volts to the red wire on the left side of that relay every thing works as it should. But i don't see a relay with those color combinations on the wiring diagram.

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

tried switching J and K relays. Still not working. Does any one know why the wiring diagram shows only four wires going to the emergency relay #3,when in reality there are 12 wires going to it. Does any one have a diagram of the relay and where all of the other wires go to ?

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

Does any one know if the J and the K relays have 3 relays inside of them?

 

[heymccall]

Yup, that BE31 has 3 relays inside.
On schematic, here's how to I'D whats in each.
But, you said you opened them up and inspected them. Did you not see the relays on the circuit board?

 

[James alex zheltonoga]

I did see the three little white boxes in there but i did not know they were relays. i didn't understand the wiring diagram . now i do. Thanks a lot heymccall. this should help me out.

 

[Georgia Iron]

There is also 2 relays in the instrument cluster which can not be replaced. Moisture can get in the cluster itself and cause it to corrode, take it apart and look at the board.... The whole cluster must be replaced if this is the case. It is about $800.00. I recently had this problem same problem with my tl150. 2 relays which were good and replaced to **** money away, and a cluster and a fuel shutoff solenoid. The solenoid is a $200.00 part at the dealer and you can get the same one on ebay for $20.00.


I finally just pulled the solenoid off the fuel pump and you can watch it work as you turn the key on and off and plug and play parts till it works unless your wiring is not good.

And if your hearing is ok you can listen or feel the relays activated as they do there job. This problem on my machine was intermittent and a real PIA. It would sometimes start and then sometimes not. You could hit the glow plugs and get it to fire up and then sometimes not. Thought it was the lift pump, fuel screen, fuel filter and so on. I knew I was not getting fuel but why... Royal PIA until I watched the solenoid pop back on when it was supposed to be open. Also you can feel it, if it gets real hot it is bad...

It is easy to figure out when you raise the cab, have the solenoid out, can turn the key on and off and also look at the relays at the same time.

PS my relay board at my feet is different than the above drawings. There is an extra one in my machine..