Fire Suppression - Boomer's , Heli's , Tanker's , Trucks, ect

[trakloader]

Okay, dryad had a redish orange tail, M&B's second goose had a plain tail. That might be the second Goose, which became Dryad II in later years. CF-VFU was always more colourful I think.

 

[trakloader]

Dryad

Found this on the net, one of few pics that show Dryad in her older paint scheme.

 

[trakloader]

also noticed that was after she got folding floats.

 

[Truckmodeler]

Just checked with Coulson's Mars book. If it was July 1962, it was the Caroline Mars. She was modified in a rush after the Marianas crash and was the only one flying until she was destroyed on the ramp at Pat Bay by hurricane Frieda in the winter of 1962. The Hawaii and Philippine were modified after that to replace her. I'm betting the 3 colour paint job is due to not finishing the full red and white paint prior to being called out in 1962. Perhaps the tanks were discharged differently as well, something that may have been changed on the subsequent modifications of the Hawaii and Philippine.

Not sure if you all know, but the Philippine Mars is going or already has gone south for good to the US Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola Florida. Coulson painted her back into 1945 dark blue and got her all ready to go. Not sure if she has gone yet but the deal is apparently complete, she will never drop another load of water again. Good news is she will be preserved for all to visit and admire for a great many years yet. Not a bad final stop for an impressive plane with an equally impressive working history that is nearly 70 years old and still flying.

 

[jackd]

I'm not really quite sure if the Caroline was ever converted or if the typhoon destroyed it before they got to her. As for the paint jobs, my guess is that the red and white didn't show up until M & B started doing their complete industrial fleet in the mid-60's. I had heard that the dark blue fuselage was a cooker during the hot summer days and they had painted the roofs white to help that issue. I have a very dear friend who was the Chief Flight Engineer on it back in the day ('63 - '73) and I will ask him what he knows.

There was an article in the local Alberni rag about the preparation of the Phillipine for the flight south a few months ago. The accompanying picture showed the painting in progress. If it went south this fall, I do not know. My guess is that it will head there sometime in the spring of next year - when weather permits. These are VFR machines after all. The Phillipine is the planned main exhibit for the US Naval Museum - let's hope they put her inside so a hurricane doesn't get her.

 

[OCR]

Just a couple links if you guys are interested...

I was actually on the Highway 87 Fire for a couple days.

http://wildfiretoday.com/2012/09/06/montana-is-grateful-for-borrowed-canadian-aircraft/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conair_Group

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?8951-Wildland-Fire-Fighting-Airplanes

An oldie, I'm not sure all the links still work...

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?5819-Wildland-Fire-Dozers

Missed a couple older threads...

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?3827-Fire-Department-pictures

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?7096-Wildland-Firefighting-Water-tender



OCR

 

[Truckmodeler]

I've done a little further reading and have some more info.
According to the Coulson book, which is a reprint of Steve Ginter's 1995 book with added Coulson shots, as well as a website dedicated to old aircraft history, the Caroline was converted in 1961, placed in service for the 1962 fire season and only flew for a short time before being destroyed in the winter of 1962 by the hurricane. She was the hero a couple of times in the summer of 1962 with Dan McIvor (senior M&B pilot and the man responsible for the whole purchase of the 4 Mars) at the controls. One of the tough ones that summer was apparently on the shoreline of Cowichan Lake, the other was at the head of Ramsey Arm. The Ramsay Arm fire was reportedly a tough one requiring 22 drops over a period of about 2 hours. McIvor had recently regained his license as he had lost it in 1960 due to eyesight problems. According to the book, McIvor finally proved, with the Caroline, the real worth of the Mars as both fires occurred within days of each other and nothing else could be deployed as quickly or as effectively.
The Marianas Mars was converted first, in 1959. She went into service for the first time for the 1960 fire season. Supposedly, she had the red and white paint right from the start. The Caroline was first used (with some re-assembly and service work done but without any tanker modifications) for crew and ground crew training at Pat Bay and only the Marianas had been fully converted at that point. When the Marianas crashed in June 1960 (she didn't even make it through one entire fire season) the Fairey Aviation team was directed to fast-track conversion of the Caroline and she started her first, and only, fire season in 1962. So, the shots of the Caroline above are definitely very rare and special shots of her working a fire. The Hawaii and Philippine were still in Navy blue sitting at Pat Bay until after the winter hurricane when Fairey Aviation was directed to quickly convert both for fire-fighting duties. I vaguely remember as a kid seeing the two of them in the old faded midnight blue sitting in the field on the north side of the airport right alongside Mills road. They were different from the first two in that they were fitted with gelgard tanks in addition to the water tanks. They were ready for the 1963 season but Dan McIvor had moved on to Pacific Western. In the end, both the Caroline Mars and the man behind the entire Mars project only flew one fire season of 'Call in the Mars' before both were no longer part of FIFT.

The drop pattern is different between the two remaining Mars. The Hawaii had the water tank placed in the bottom of the fuselage where extra fuel tanks used to be. This gives a bottom drop pattern. The Philippine had the water tank installed in the cargo area which led to a side drop pattern through 2 doors on each side.

I found this book in Port Alberni a couple of years back. The original Steve Ginter book is fully reprinted and updated with Coulson photos of the work of Hawaii Mars down south. Not sure if its still available but its called "the Mighty Martin Mars".

Hope that is all of interest.

Cheers.

 

[Truckmodeler]

I'm not really quite sure if the Caroline was ever converted or if the typhoon destroyed it before they got to her. As for the paint jobs, my guess is that the red and white didn't show up until M & B started doing their complete industrial fleet in the mid-60's. I had heard that the dark blue fuselage was a cooker during the hot summer days and they had painted the roofs white to help that issue. I have a very dear friend who was the Chief Flight Engineer on it back in the day ('63 - '73) and I will ask him what he knows.

There was an article in the local Alberni rag about the preparation of the Phillipine for the flight south a few months ago. The accompanying picture showed the painting in progress. If it went south this fall, I do not know. My guess is that it will head there sometime in the spring of next year - when weather permits. These are VFR machines after all. The Phillipine is the planned main exhibit for the US Naval Museum - let's hope they put her inside so a hurricane doesn't get her.

Jack'd: I'd be interested in finding out if my ramblings are accurate. I took them from a couple of sources but first hand info is always better.
I seem to remember hearing something long time ago about the dark blue being hot as well. Perhaps one of them flew in the original paint for a time. I can't imagine flying in those in dark blue in the tropics - their original navy tasks.
I have not heard whether the Philippine left yet but makes sense to wait until the spring. Hopefully one of the Port Alberni guys on here can confirm her status.

 

[Truckmodeler]

M4 hst conversion

Here are a couple of photos of a converted M4 High Speed Tractor into some form of firefighting equipment, looks like a pump and hose unit. A friend took them in the early 60's but not sure exactly where. Most likely Shawnigan lake or Cowichan lake. Maybe someone on here recognizes the location. There were also other M4 conversions at the site as well - a spar and something else being worked on.

 

[trakloader]

Scott-Douglas-Pak-Trak was selling M4 HS Tractors for firefighting in the 60's. I have some literature somewhere. Also, I posted some pics of the Marianas Mars in the "Back in the Day" thread, shows her dropping water and still in Navy blue.

 

[trakloader]

Marianas Mars

Must have been taken Spring 1960.

 

[jackd]

Jack'd: I'd be interested in finding out if my ramblings are accurate. I took them from a couple of sources but first hand info is always better.
I seem to remember hearing something long time ago about the dark blue being hot as well. Perhaps one of them flew in the original paint for a time. I can't imagine flying in those in dark blue in the tropics - their original navy tasks.
I have not heard whether the Philippine left yet but makes sense to wait until the spring. Hopefully one of the Port Alberni guys on here can confirm her status.

I have that book as well - I just never read it! You did a great job of condensing what is written there into that posting. I will see what I can gleen from my friend - I just saw him last weekend and it could be some time before we meet again. I had the benefit of hearing some of the tales of what happened at FIFT from an inside view - I used to drink at the West Bay pub and some of the employees would go there to finish off their day. I still drop by the base to check things out and talk to old friends who still work there. It will be strange to only have one of those old ships parked on the lake.

 

[Truckmodeler]

Oh my, I should check things further.
I'm thinking now the Marianas never did get the red and white as stated in the book. There are some other errors too, as I've been finding out. The book says the Marianas crashed in 1960 when in fact it was 1961. I've also seen a reference to the Caroline Mars never being converted - much as Jackd said. H'mmmmmm. However, I've seen reference to her being fully converted in 1961, prior to the hurricane.

Jackd: perhaps your friend can set me straight!

 

[jackd]

Oh my, I should check things further.
I'm thinking now the Marianas never did get the red and white as stated in the book. There are some other errors too, as I've been finding out. The book says the Marianas crashed in 1960 when in fact it was 1961. I've also seen a reference to the Caroline Mars never being converted - much as Jackd said. H'mmmmmm. However, I've seen reference to her being fully converted in 1961, prior to the hurricane.

Jackd: perhaps your friend can set me straight!

The true story lies somewhere inbetween, is my guess. In my time, I have seen many things. One thing I am still kicking myself about was the section of the hull with the name 'Caroline Mars' that was hung up on the wall of Capital Iron in Victoria. I thought it was on display until one day it was gone - they sold it to some collector. I would have bought it, had I known. This was the section from forward of the cockpit on the left hand side - navy blue with the name in white - saved during the scrapping. Most of the early Mars had their markings and names painted out, when they did early fire fighting duties.

Another thing that makes me scratch my head is the set of wings and other bits sitting behind the storage sheds at the base. They are red and white and carry the registration of either the Hawaii or the Phillipine. Where are these wings from? Why were they changed out? They sure weren`t high time parts. Are one of the two aircraft sporting wings from the Caroline or was there a new set from the factory to be had? Then there is the fuselage section section from ship #8 from the assembly line sitting there. Someone should write an authoritative history of their service in Canada much as the Ginter book covered their US Navy service days. This might explain many of the mysteries that we are trying to get to the bottom of.

 

[trakloader]

The references I have see said that the Caroline was stripped and undergoing conversion, when she blew away in a storm. I do have a book here, somewhere, showing pictures of her wreck after the storm.

 

[trakloader]

Hawaii Mars Prior to Conversion

With "Dryad" and the second MB & PR Goose, note the fixed wing floats.

 

[Truckmodeler]

The references I have see said that the Caroline was stripped and undergoing conversion, when she blew away in a storm. I do have a book here, somewhere, showing pictures of her wreck after the storm.

Looks like I should have researched much further before rambling on. I don't like propagating erroneous history, apologies to all.

So, it looks like the great photos that started this are of the Philippine Mars - the side discharge as Jackd noted. Marianas had crashed a year earlier, Caroline and Hawaii were awaiting conversion.

Anyone know if Caroline actually flew once up here?

 

[Born2clearcut]

As a result of the Marianas Mars crash the conversion of the Caroline Mars to a water bomber was accelerated. In 1962 McIvor, who had got his license back on appeal, demonstrated the wisdom of his selection of the Mars flying boats by putting out a serious fire with the Caroline Mars before ground crews even managed to get to the scene.Then on October 12, 1962 the Caroline Mars (C-FLYM) was in dry dock at Victoria International Airport when Hurricane Frieda blasted through. The high winds ripped the Caroline from her tie downs causing the aircraft to lift off only to come down hard causing significant but not irreparable damage. At this time Forest Industries Flying Tankers had only a four or five year mandate, so sadly it was unfortunately decided to scrap the aircraft and to carry on with the two remaining planes, the Philippine (C-FLYK) and the Hawaii (C-FLYL). Ironically, the damage to the Caroline would have been relatively easy to repair and would have, had the accident occurred today. This picture and info from the internet . If this info is right then the Caroline did get atleast one flight in

 

[Knocker of rock]

Apparently in Canada, you refer to the storm as Hurricane Frieda. In Washington, Oregon and Northern California, it is just refered to as "The Columbus Day Storm". What ever it's name, it was apparently quite a storm (I was their, but in diapers). The coast took quite a beating, as did inland Washington. There is a orographic funel formed by the Olympic and Cascade mountains where southern generated storm winds in the south Puget Sound area are very constricted and accelerated by the mountains. I would imagine something similar happens along the Sunshine coast with the bulks of Vancouver Island and the Coast Range.

 

[Born2clearcut]

Another thing that makes me scratch my head is the set of wings and other bits sitting behind the storage sheds at the base. They are red and white and carry the registration of either the Hawaii or the Phillipine. Where are these wings from? Why were they changed out? They sure weren`t high time parts. Are one of the two aircraft sporting wings from the Caroline or was there a new set from the factory to be had? Then there is the fuselage section section from ship #8 from the assembly line sitting there. Someone should write an authoritative history of their service in Canada much as the Ginter book covered their US Navy service days. This might explain many of the mysteries that we are trying to get to the bottom of.

McIvor also had the foresight to immediately start a hunt for spare parts for the flying boats. He bought six spare engines for $135 each, later followed by 29 more R-3350's from a scrap dealer for $600 each. He also discovered the U.S. Navy still owned many crates of factory-new spare parts, which he was able to buy for only $3,200. These purchases enabled FIFT and its successors Flying Tankers Inc., TimberWest and Coulson to operate the Mars flying boats well into the 21st century. Maybe their was a few wings in that deal Jack , just alittle something too confuse everyone more