Final Drive Oil Analysis

[JfitzCat]

Thanks all for ongoing discussion on this, albeit to some extent redundant. I'm wrestling with similar issues described some here: https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/304cr-final-drive-alarmist-oil-sampling.106987/

...especially the cleaning out of mud and crud from the seal area Nige graciously posted in the above thread,; I can say I was on my back just yesterday with a sort of custom scraper tool I made, digging crap out of the cavities on the 304 with nearly 5000hrs, without removing the track. It may not be any less futile than a lot of other sorts of remote property management I'm involved with year round! At this point, I'm not a big fan of the design, to make a critical seal area so prone to mud cakes so inaccessible, but I'm not a mechanical engineer. I'm just a schlub who's seen too many pictures of WWI tanks, thinking they managed to work in the trenches, at least for a minute or two.

I've done a bunch of flushing and oil changes also, and taken y'all's advise to run TO-4 50 - holding my breath on another set of SOS in 100 hours or so. I do a significant amount of travel and dozer work with the thing. Anyway, I have a tendency to over-think things and it is helpful when all the experience here says relax, change the oil often, it's cheap, and pay attention to how the machine responds.

Please report back with your ongoing experience on the matter.

-gibbs

I had been following your thread. lots of good info in it that’s applicable to my machine. I agree man, the accessibility of the seal area is just awful. I cleaned both sides of mine out the other day. You can’t even reach your hand in there behind the sprocket, there is no room at all. I had to just start chiseling from between each tooth on the sprocket until the clump was broken up enough to fall down and then had to chisel that up until it could be pulled out of the area entirely, if that makes any sense. But it’s fairly clean now. it’s just something else I’ll have to add to my maintenance regimen.

I do a lot of tracking as well. It’s not the kind of machine that spends most of its time stationary. At the least it’s always moving back and forth in our wood yard moving logs around, and sometimes goes out on longer travel bouts like when I’m cleaning up our trail system.

Overthinking is what I do best. Both of our threads are great examples of people that overthink stuff lol. I’m definitely interested in how your next analysis looks with 50wt TO-4 after all the flushing. I’m going to pull my next one at the 50hr mark. That’s sufficient of time for an accurate sample in my experience. When I took my machine in for Cat to inspect the drives the oil had just 16hrs on it and they pulled a sample of it when they drained it. And the results were already not good. Iron and oxidation were highly elevated already. So I figure 50hrs will be more than enough to see if this new oil is doing any better than the GO was. Seems like we do somewhat similar work with our machines so the samples should give us pretty good insight into 30wt vs 50wt TO-4.

 

[Nige]

the accessibility of the seal area is just awful.

That's what you get when you buy a "Lawns & Gardens" size machine. The designers had the unenviable task of trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot. I suggest that you either get creative or employ a dwarf.......

I do a lot of tracking

And right there is the reason why the FD oil should be changed much more frequently than the O&M Manual recommends. Somewhere in the Manual will be a statement something along the lines of - "Machines that operate in severe operating conditions may require more frequent maintenance." For an excavator "a lot of tracking" is classed as severe (in other words not normal) service - but of course nobody ever reads that caveat.........

 

[JfitzCat]

That's what you get when you buy a "Lawns & Gardens" size machine. The designers had the unenviable task of trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot. I suggest that you either get creative or employ a dwarf.......

And right there is the reason why the FD oil should be changed much more frequently than the O&M Manual recommends. Somewhere in the Manual will be a statement something along the lines of - "Machines that operate in severe operating conditions may require more frequent maintenance." For an excavator "a lot of tracking" is classed as severe (in other words not normal) service - but of course nobody ever reads that caveat.........

Ya I think I’m going to fab up some sort of a 90 degree pick tool to be able to get behind the sprocket easier. But all in all it wasn’t too difficult to clean out. But it’ll get repacked the first full revolution of the final in wet dirt.

I’m not sure the drain interval is the issue with mine. The longest I’ve ever gone on FD oil was 117hrs. And the sample did not look good at all. Then next drain and sample was pulled at just 16hrs, also bad. Next was 77hrs. Also bad. I’m sure youre not suggesting going go 10hr drain interval lol. Can’t imagine the severe duty interval is shorter than any of those. Probably more like 250-500hrs, If normal duty is 1000. What do you thikk a good OCI is for my use?

They could do a better job with the manuals, especially considering how expensive these machines are. I’ve read the maintenance section cover to cover many times now and find it really lacking in detail and specifics. For 80 grand they should provide a manual that’s just for a 304e2. Not a 303, 303.5, 304, 304.5, 305, and 305.5. While these machines are similar in many ways, they’re also very different in a lot of ways so alot of the directions for certain things are flat out wrong. But I digress.

 

[Nige]

If normal duty is 1000. What do you thikk a good OCI is for my use?

Exactly the same as my reply a couple of pages back - for the quantity involved I would say change the oil in the final at least every time you change the engine oil.

 

[nonprod]

Ya I think I’m going to fab up some sort of a 90 degree pick tool to be able to get behind the sprocket easier. But all in all it wasn’t too difficult to clean out. But it’ll get repacked the first full revolution of the final in wet dirt.



They could do a better job ... ...For 80 grand they should provide a manual

Man, amen and we're livin' parallel struggles seems like. I just saw a couple of springs that might help with the blade float sensitivity, for a mere $165 each. If I was czar of a 'product' (which will never happen) I'd first put the CFO up on a coat hook and then instruct him that 'all manuals will be free of charge.' !

 

[Nige]

I'd first put the CFO up on a coat hook and then instruct him that 'all manuals will be free of charge.' !

They are - for the original buyer of the machine. Direct your ire at those people who don’t take care of their manuals. Or should manuals be FOC to anyone who wants one for the entire life of a particular piece of equipment from cradle to grave.?

 

[Chrisso]

Exactly the same as my reply a couple of pages back - for the quantity involved I would say change the oil in the final at least every time you change the engine oil.

Absolutely. When you buy a service kit from Cat you get oil sample bottles included. Taking a FD oil sample is part of the service. What oil comes out must go back in to maintain the oil level. The compartment as mentioned holds less than a litre of oil.

I've got no problem letting all .8 litres fall out every time I take a sample (into an approved container of course ).

 

[JfitzCat]

Man, amen and we're livin' parallel struggles seems like. I just saw a couple of springs that might help with the blade float sensitivity, for a mere $165 each. If I was czar of a 'product' (which will never happen) I'd first put the CFO up on a coat hook and then instruct him that 'all manuals will be free of charge.' !

Seriously man. You know the tiny little level plug for the final? that thing probably took 1oz of steel to produce, or less. Cat charges $50 for one! I found the same size plugs online from zoro for $3 a piece.

I really hate the Allen head plugs for the finals. The tiny level plugs with the 5mm head strip out so easy. I wish they would have done either just square 1/4 inch drive, or recessed them down a little into the cover and did regular bolts.

 

[Chrisso]

Does that $3 plug have a magnet in it that saves your final drive from early destruction? $50 is cheap when you see the price of a new drive motor.

 

[nonprod]

They are - for the original buyer of the machine. Direct your ire at those people who don’t take care of their manuals. Or should manuals be FOC to anyone who wants one for the entire life of a particular piece of equipment from cradle to grave.?

I take your points, one should take care of things, indeed. And I'm not entitled to support from Caterpillar as one only on the grave side of machinery. I'm not in a position to pay retail, and I can't expect something of value for nothing. One could dream that servers filled with information on discontinued products could be made available, for example, to foster brand loyalty, or more 'good will', but I admit there's little incentive for corporations to care about such things. I also confess to being far out of the league; I'm a 3-hour drive from the ballpark. All the more reason to value DIY forums!

 

[JfitzCat]

Does that $3 plug have a magnet in it that saves your final drive from early destruction? $50 is cheap when you see the price of a new drive motor.

It doesn’t. But neither does the $50 plug From cat. I think the fill and drain plugs do though.

 

[Acoals]

You can get drain plugs from McMaster-Carr with a magnet for about $3.50. I have a bag of various sizes of plugs on hand for various contingencies . . .

 

[Chrisso]

It doesn’t. But neither does the $50 plug From cat. I think the fill and drain plugs do though.

I reckon it will be magnetic. That thing is worth $90 down here. If it's not somebody should be put in jail.