Fiat 70CI. Repairs, modifications and stories.

[DMiller]

I actually broke track on both sides of my Allis
Master pins were trash and damn near to fell out as it does need rails
Once off sprockets and blocked up was easy

 

[secondom8]

I went on a holiday for a month, came back put dozer back together enough to drive it and took it down the paddock, as I was driving I held one steering lever back and jabbed the brake, after awhile it started steering!! Did the same to the other side and she turns both ways now! I'm excited!!

 

[nutwood]

I went on a holiday for a month, came back put dozer back together enough to drive it and took it down the paddock, as I was driving I held one steering lever back and jabbed the brake, after awhile it started steering!! Did the same to the other side and she turns both ways now! I'm excited!!

Did the power assist on the steering lever work as it should?

 

[secondom8]

I think so, it still needs to be worked. The levers still pull back to far. Hasn't got much leverage yet but they work. Have to use the brakes aswell. I didn't want to use it to much as I haven't checked the final drive oil. Tomorrow's job.

 

[nutwood]

My levers pull pretty much as far back as they'll go. If they're not hitting the seat, or ruining your chances of having a son to pass the machine on to, I wouldn't stress. The lever action should be effortless. I had an issue with mine, that every time I left it a while, the power assist didn't work. Eventually I went through the multitude of pipe connections and replaced all the copper washers, which fixed the problem.
They always say " replace the copper washers", but did I listen?!

 

[secondom8]

Oh, I think I've replaced a lot of them because they fell underneath when I was disconnecting them! I'll check it out tomorrow. I want to do all the oils and then use it as much as I can to free it up more. Does yours steer without using brakes? This is the first old dozer I've driven!

 

[nutwood]

The clutch disconnects the track. On easy going mine will sort of head towards the left, if the left clutch is disengaged. Down hill it'll head to the right. If it's pushing a load on the right side of the blade, it'll most likely sit and pathetically spin the RH track. I find for definite and predictable steering, the brake needs to be used in conjunction with the clutch. Also from experience, using the left clutch and the right brake is seriously counter productive!

 

[secondom8]

Well, I gave it a bit of a work out yesterday. Advice given to me is that the clutch adjustment will move in ward as the clutches wear. Is this from your experience? Right now the clutches are adjusted all the way out ward to touch the cam on the engagement arm. The rhs one sometimes needs a screw driver jammed in so it touches the cam to operate. My understanding is that it should wear and eventually touch. LHS clutch works well. I can hear the rear Hydraulic work but it doesnt touch the clutch arm. I hope this makes sense! I did some research on the dozer and it did have brand new clutches installed a few years ago. But was left to seize. I will get some pictures if that helps.

 

[nutwood]

Well, I gave it a bit of a work out yesterday. Advice given to me is that the clutch adjustment will move in ward as the clutches wear. Is this from your experience? Right now the clutches are adjusted all the way out ward to touch the cam on the engagement arm. The rhs one sometimes needs a screw driver jammed in so it touches the cam to operate. My understanding is that it should wear and eventually touch. LHS clutch works well. I can hear the rear Hydraulic work but it doesnt touch the clutch arm. I hope this makes sense! I did some research on the dozer and it did have brand new clutches installed a few years ago. But was left to seize. I will get some pictures if that helps.

Jamming a screw driver in doesn't sound right!
There's a pair of nuts that adjust the lever. Loosen off the outer nut. When the cam is against the follower, there should be 1 mm clearance from the inner nut to the lever. This translates to about 50 mm free travel at the lever hand grip. This free travel reduces gradually as the clutches wear. I've got sintered plates in mine and haven't touched that adjustment in years, so am struggling to remember any more detail. My brakes need adjustment though, so I'll be in there shortly.

 

[secondom8]

Mine is adjusted as far as it can go but doesnt touch the cam, so that is why I have to put something between it and the follower. I've been told as it is new clutches it should wear till it is touching..I'm not sure...kind of makes sense. It is steering though so is working. The lhs is really good now and seems to be getting better...I'm just going to use it and see how I go. Some work done today.

 

[nutwood]

I had a problem the second time I did my clutches in that the centre clutch hub was sitting too far onto the shaft. It's a taper fit but you do it up very tight. I suspect that over the years the hub has incrementally stretched. The issue was that when the clutch released, it was possible for the inside clutch plate to come out of the brake drum and lose the spline alignment. I was able to do that within the normal range of adjustment. My solution was to put a spacer between the brake drum and the plate it bolts to. This moved the brake drum inwards and solved the problem.
My concern is that if you are having to put a screw driver in there, you must be moving the inner plate of the clutch much further inwards than was ever intended. I would be taking the inspection cover off the rear of the machine and having a really good squint in there, just to see what is going on. There could be all sorts of things but you don't want to drop the clutch plates out of the drum.

 

[secondom8]

I had a look but nothing looks out of place. It is getting heaps better at turning with less brake pressure. I probably overstated screw driver, I have a bit of steel probably 2 mm thick wedged in it. The other side doesnt have anything but the adjustment is as far as it goes outwards on both sides. My understanding is that when they wear you have to move the adjustment inwards to give you more clearance with the cams. I'm going to keep an eye on it and keep operating. When I first operated it was a good leg work out steering with the brakes but now it is just a slight tap on them and the clutches engage.

 

[Phil_C]

Hello All
Does anyone have any experience with removing the wet clutch. We have one that has a broken hose from the pump to the clutch which has caused excessive damage to the clutch but we can't work out how the clutch is removed from the machine. We have a manual for the dry clutch but not the wet clutch. I am hoping the motor does not have to come out.

Regards

Phil

 

[nutwood]

Glad to hear it all looks OK. Sounds as though it's settling down. There's a whole bunch of plates making up the clutch pack. When you pull the lever, you take the pressure off the pack and allow it to slip. Much the same as a car clutch, but with more plates. As the pack gets thinner, due to wear, the adjustment moves. Gradually you lose free travel in the clutch levers. If not adjusted, it'd come up against the cam and you'd start running the thrust bearing all the time. Eventually the pack would start to slip. Basically, you keep moving the adjustment inwards to maintain 50 mm free travel at the lever ends and you won't go too far wrong.
The brakes don't interact with the clutch. They simply restrain the track that the clutch has released from driving. If the brakes are a work out, it means the clutch isn't disengaging fully. From what you are saying, it seems likely that the steel clutch plates are rusted. This has caused some expansion of the clutch, along with grabbing. If this is the case, you are totally correct; best thing to do is to use it and polish those plates up! I reckon you'll be adjusting the levers fairly frequently for a while and then it'll settle down.

 

[Queenslander]

Phil_C, Iam not sure that the 70ci had a wet master clutch, nutwood will be able to verify.
Our AT7C had an oil clutch which we were able to remove through the opening above the clutch.
We also removed the flywheel through the same opening to replace the starter ring gear.

 

[Phil_C]

Hello Queenslander.
I am not real sure about the model or the year it was built. I can't find any identifying numbers on it. We cannot get the clutch disconnected from the engine in order to lift it out. There does not appear to be enough distance from the clutch to the gearbox. Does anyone have a manual for the wet clutch?

Regards

Phil

 

[Queenslander]

Iam sure that either GW Tractors in Brisbane or Sth. Burnett Tractor Parts near Kingaroy would copy the appropriate pages for you.
Where abouts in OZ are you Phil?

 

[Phil_C]

I think the manual we have came from GW Tractors. The dozer is my brothers and he ordered the book based on the info given at the time of purchase but turned out to be wrong when we delved into the clutch area.
I am in the Tweed area in northern NSW.

 

[Queenslander]

If you post some photos we might be able to identify it for you.
From memory, the id plate should have been on the firewall somewhere.

 

[nutwood]

I have two manuals and both are for dry clutch. I have a vague recollection of talking to someone who had a machine with a wet clutch but that's about it. Be interesting to put together a spread sheet of all the different models and what varies between them. Tricky though. My dozer was assembled from several others, which is why I have two manuals. To fix something, I first have to identify it!