Aha!
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Failed becket??
- Thread starter Natman
- Start date
crane operator
Senior Member
From gunnebo johnson website:
Johnson Open Wedge Sockets
Open Wedge Sockets combine positive attachment with optimum versatility.
Easy-to-change Gunnebo Johnson Wedge Sockets are a high strength, cast alloy steel. Each socket accepts at least two different ductile iron wedges. This allows the socket to be used with more than one rope size. Together, wedge and body act as a vise which grips the wire rope and locks it into place. The headed attachment pin is standard and has a charpy value of 25 lbs/ft at -4° F. The socket body has a charpy value of 25lbs/ft at -40°F
Gunnebo Johnson Wedge Sockets may be used with multiple sizes of wire rope.
To switch from an overhaul ball application calling for a 7/8-inch wire rope to a block application calling for a 1-inch rope, it is not necessary to buy a complete wedge socket. A simple change-out of wedges will suffice. Of the 18 models of wedge sockets offered by Gunnebo Johnson, all but one, the FS-26, can be adapted to at least two sizes of wire rope. The WS-5, in fact, will adapt to three: 1/2, 9/16, and 5/8 inches. Be sure that the wedge is correct for the wire rope size.
Each socket manufactured by Gunnebo Johnson has a model number and acceptable rope sizes cast into its body. Each wedge has the rope size and particular socket model it will fit. Wedges are also coded by means of color. Red indicates that the wedge is for the largest size of wire rope stated on its socket. Green indicates that the wedge is for the smallest size of rope stated on its socket. Blue indicates that the wedge is for a rope size of 9/16 inches. At the time of shipment each socket assembly is clearly identified by a steel-banded plastic tag stating: WEDGE IN THIS SOCKET IS FOR (SIZE) WIRE ROPE ONLY.
When using wedge sockets note that two precautions should be taken.
Johnson Open Wedge Sockets
Open Wedge Sockets combine positive attachment with optimum versatility.
Easy-to-change Gunnebo Johnson Wedge Sockets are a high strength, cast alloy steel. Each socket accepts at least two different ductile iron wedges. This allows the socket to be used with more than one rope size. Together, wedge and body act as a vise which grips the wire rope and locks it into place. The headed attachment pin is standard and has a charpy value of 25 lbs/ft at -4° F. The socket body has a charpy value of 25lbs/ft at -40°F
Gunnebo Johnson Wedge Sockets may be used with multiple sizes of wire rope.
To switch from an overhaul ball application calling for a 7/8-inch wire rope to a block application calling for a 1-inch rope, it is not necessary to buy a complete wedge socket. A simple change-out of wedges will suffice. Of the 18 models of wedge sockets offered by Gunnebo Johnson, all but one, the FS-26, can be adapted to at least two sizes of wire rope. The WS-5, in fact, will adapt to three: 1/2, 9/16, and 5/8 inches. Be sure that the wedge is correct for the wire rope size.
Each socket manufactured by Gunnebo Johnson has a model number and acceptable rope sizes cast into its body. Each wedge has the rope size and particular socket model it will fit. Wedges are also coded by means of color. Red indicates that the wedge is for the largest size of wire rope stated on its socket. Green indicates that the wedge is for the smallest size of rope stated on its socket. Blue indicates that the wedge is for a rope size of 9/16 inches. At the time of shipment each socket assembly is clearly identified by a steel-banded plastic tag stating: WEDGE IN THIS SOCKET IS FOR (SIZE) WIRE ROPE ONLY.
When using wedge sockets note that two precautions should be taken.
- Make sure that a sudden jolt or impact does not dislodge a wedge. When installing wire rope, always pre-load the wedge with wire rope in place. Check frequently to re-tighten or re-position as necessary.
- Make allowance for the crimping effect common with all types of wedge sockets. Experience shows that it will reduce the working load limit of a line by 20 percent.
Last edited:
crane operator
Senior Member
Thanks for the rest of the story natman. "Someone" gave out some bad info that the 5/8" wedge was "close enough". Cable compression with a incorrect sized wedge, distortion allowing it to loosen, and a probably not tight enough cable clamp, on the back side.
Sounds like most incidents, its not just one thing, its a chain of events. 5/8" wedge good enough (no its not). It doesn't sound like he's removed the becket in the 800 hrs since, so I doubt he's had a wrench on it to check the clamp tension. Big bunk of plywood loading up the single line, instead of just a truss for weight.
The becket being "worn out" is a bunch of bu$%&^. The cable doesn't move on the becket- its not a running line in there.
Your buddy should have known better than to accept "close enough". I hope he bought a 9/16" wedge for his becket this time around- it could have been someone's life in a manbasket, or if two guys had been trying to land that bunk of plywood, it could have been on their heads. Thank goodness it wasn't.
There's all kinds of information, and misinformation out there. A lot of it on the internet. Don't accept someones word that its right, learn for yourself. I posted some pictures in another thread of incorrect becket installations, all done by big "rental" houses. By a mechanic that no one has trained, he just does what looks right and no one else knows.
Tell your buddy to start learning- he should be able to look at it and know whether its right or not. Just paying someone else to do it, doesn't get him off the hook.
I always tell guys "I don't care what we get done today, as long as we all get to go home today".
Sounds like most incidents, its not just one thing, its a chain of events. 5/8" wedge good enough (no its not). It doesn't sound like he's removed the becket in the 800 hrs since, so I doubt he's had a wrench on it to check the clamp tension. Big bunk of plywood loading up the single line, instead of just a truss for weight.
The becket being "worn out" is a bunch of bu$%&^. The cable doesn't move on the becket- its not a running line in there.
Your buddy should have known better than to accept "close enough". I hope he bought a 9/16" wedge for his becket this time around- it could have been someone's life in a manbasket, or if two guys had been trying to land that bunk of plywood, it could have been on their heads. Thank goodness it wasn't.
There's all kinds of information, and misinformation out there. A lot of it on the internet. Don't accept someones word that its right, learn for yourself. I posted some pictures in another thread of incorrect becket installations, all done by big "rental" houses. By a mechanic that no one has trained, he just does what looks right and no one else knows.
Tell your buddy to start learning- he should be able to look at it and know whether its right or not. Just paying someone else to do it, doesn't get him off the hook.
I always tell guys "I don't care what we get done today, as long as we all get to go home today".
Then again . Crosby wire clips & loop thimbles still have there place .
http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/products/wire-rope-clips/crosby-450-red-u-bolt-wire-rope-clips/
http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/produ...les/crosby-g-411-standard-wire-rope-thimbles/
Pretty tough & reliable set up .
We use the becket / wedge socket on the cranes for the ease of switching from single line to multipart block line quickly .
No beckets behind the winch trucks or wreckers . They would be torn to pieces in rough work . Wire clips all the way .
http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/products/wire-rope-clips/crosby-450-red-u-bolt-wire-rope-clips/
http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/produ...les/crosby-g-411-standard-wire-rope-thimbles/
Pretty tough & reliable set up .
We use the becket / wedge socket on the cranes for the ease of switching from single line to multipart block line quickly .
No beckets behind the winch trucks or wreckers . They would be torn to pieces in rough work . Wire clips all the way .
Well, the plot thickens! He says the 30 year major crane service company says, and showed him in the book, that the Crosby 5/8" becket should use a 5/8" wedge, EVEN WHEN USING 9/16" ROPE, and that this same "book" says no 9/16" wedge is available for this setup. I should also say that my buddy does a lot of heavy maintenance and repair on his 2 Manitexs and 1 Elliott, and is not blaming the crane company. The only reason he had them change out his winch line was because he had it there anyway doing something real major. It will be 3 weeks or so before he swings through my area, and he'll be bringing the old one. So, while I'm defending his overall mechanical savvy and overall paying of attention to all things mechanical, I will also be the first to jump on board the blame train IF there is something we are not getting right so far on the why it heck it happened! The "worn out" comment was made only after pretty exhaustive searching for another cause, but I agree, and for that matter so does he, that it doesn't make sense.
Man that doesn't sound right at all. What I want to know is how the becket held on the old cable. To pull out 850 hrs into service doesn't make sense.
Just to satisfy my curiosity ask him if he switched to a different kind of wire rope. I know that wire rope is different from one manufacture to another. Some just feel softer. I wonder if he had a di-Pac cable on it before and that Cable is enough stiffer and harder that it didn't slide through were a standard cable did.
On a di-PAC they start with 5/8 cable and compress it down to 9/16, or 3/4 to 5/8. It's a good cable. Doesn't want to lay right the first time you reel it up but once it's trained it's a good rope. A standard 6x19 is gonna be a lot softer. Just thinking out loud here.
Anyhow I'd tell them to take there wore out theory and put it in a place that gets no sunshine. A becket and wedge won't wear out from standard use. You can damage them from overloading but they're not a wear item.
Just to satisfy my curiosity ask him if he switched to a different kind of wire rope. I know that wire rope is different from one manufacture to another. Some just feel softer. I wonder if he had a di-Pac cable on it before and that Cable is enough stiffer and harder that it didn't slide through were a standard cable did.
On a di-PAC they start with 5/8 cable and compress it down to 9/16, or 3/4 to 5/8. It's a good cable. Doesn't want to lay right the first time you reel it up but once it's trained it's a good rope. A standard 6x19 is gonna be a lot softer. Just thinking out loud here.
Anyhow I'd tell them to take there wore out theory and put it in a place that gets no sunshine. A becket and wedge won't wear out from standard use. You can damage them from overloading but they're not a wear item.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair. . . do you folks in the US have any issues with metric substitution/mislabeling? . . . 14mm is not 9/16"
Cheers.
Cheers.
I'm in Canada I just put a new rope on a couple months ago it's a 15 mm. All the suppliers I talked to north or south of the border understood the difference. But it wouldn't take much to get it wrong, if you plug it into a metric converter both 14 and 15 will both give you 9/16".
old-iron-habit
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2012
- Messages
- 4,233
- Location
- Moose Lake, MN
- Occupation
- Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . .
Gotcha Tradesman.
That is the very point I was making . . . probably an irrelevant point and I know bugger all about cranes but I thought it couldn't hurt to mention it.
I have been caught with the metric conversion thing in other fields . . . tube sizes for instance, a hundred miles from town and the compression fittings don't fit.
Cheers.
Gotcha Tradesman.
That is the very point I was making . . . probably an irrelevant point and I know bugger all about cranes but I thought it couldn't hurt to mention it.
I have been caught with the metric conversion thing in other fields . . . tube sizes for instance, a hundred miles from town and the compression fittings don't fit.
Cheers.
Even if the becket holds the rope, if you have a grooved drum it's not going to spool properly. I was schooled to be very carful to be sure to match the rope to manufacturers specs.
I had to use the welded becket idea today .
We were rigging the Insley for dragline service and replaced bucket cable .
We pounded on the wedge for about half hour & gave up .
Sliced it down the center and she came loose .
http://www.heavytruckforums.com/sho...ufacturing-Company&p=3861&viewfull=1#post3861
We were rigging the Insley for dragline service and replaced bucket cable .
We pounded on the wedge for about half hour & gave up .
Sliced it down the center and she came loose .
http://www.heavytruckforums.com/sho...ufacturing-Company&p=3861&viewfull=1#post3861
old-iron-habit
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2012
- Messages
- 4,233
- Location
- Moose Lake, MN
- Occupation
- Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
I'm certain that nobody will be using this becket for hoisting with people around. Its in the perfect spot on that drag bucket.
Again, though that makes perfect sense, I really doubt the outfit that serviced it last time would make such an area, then again no one is perfect. Maybe they confused or slipped up on the fact that most beckets COULD work with two different size wire ropes, AS LONG AS the proper/specific sized wedge was also used. I think he still has it, I'll check......
My thoughts as well old-iron .
Not to worried about using it on the bucket . If it fails I could possibly injure a bullfrog or water moccasin .
Then again if it don't fail I could still possibly injure a slithery critter .
I better post a two week notice at the pond before I start so those guys can move out before work begins .
According to my friend, the info came right out of the Crosby "book", for 9/16" wire rope you are supposed to use a 5/8" becket AND wedge. And, he was showed this info in the book after the failure. Maybe it was an old book or a new one, but that is for sure what they called for and what they did.