Excavators on gradients

[Johnny English]

Hi guys, I'm looking at re-grading some reservoir embankments, they need the HDPE liner removing and the banks re-grading and a layer of clay placing to cushion the new liner. The client wants us to use a 6 tonner and run on the batter but we want to use a 25m reach js460 excavator as the grade is 1 in 2 to 2.5. What gradients have folks managed to make excavators work on with slipping to the bottom in the wet on clay etc.

Any advice welcome,

thanks

 

[tylermckee]

you can work on a 2:1 but if its soft/wet it will be a pain. the longreach would be easier

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Johnny this client must be a Farmer!
I cannot see any civils contractor producing a method statement for a 6 tonner working on a slope 1in2 whilst sitting on wet clay.
In my experience it can be done as long as the machine remains off the clay and places the layer of clay as it progesses. This assumes the base is a firm suitable footing to run on.
I once covered a huge area of batters with 'Sewage Cake' using a 13 tonne Hitachi. It was tipped in a windrow at the base ready to be pushed up with both a D5 and D6 dozers and I was simply loading the dumptucks with the evil smelling grease like substance.
What a performance ensued! with the Dozers spinning and sliding everywhere but getting precisely nowhere up the batters.
It was decided that I would have to spread it on with the Hitachi, and the D6 would then rip through to mix it.
I progressed by working accross the slopes and pulling the windrow up from the base and spreading material as I went. The only problem was in places the batters were so long I had to keep throwing a windrow above and doing another pass up to four times to reach the top.
Only once did I try to sit on the spread material, and had a lovely ride straight to the bottom with no chance of stopping.
It was so bad the D6 could not climb the slope on the 'Cake', so I had to leave a road every so often for him to climb up and then slide down with the ripper dug in. It turned out a good long hire for me though.
If you can use a long reach with a good Operator, then that would be my first choice as it will make you less weather dependant or help with poor material. Other than that surely a D4 LGP will hang on better and certainly produce a nice sealed in finish to the clay with the grousers, that's what we always used on landfill cells.
Hope you get the work,
Eddie.

 

[CascadeScaper]

The long reach will definately be the easiest method, but you could stick a 2:1 with a hoe as long as it isn't slick, especially if your 6 ton hoe has a blade on it to help level up the machine.

 

[Johnny English]

Your quite right on it being a farmer, problem is the batter is 20 metres plus in length and we can only work from the top down because of the liner that will still be intact in the bottom, theres not really enough uninterupted space for a dozer to work. Even if we use a 6 or 13 tonner it will still need another machine to feed the material down from top to the bottom.

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Got you now Johnny, I thought you would have exhausted all the Dozer possibilities. My only other suggestion would be a winch tractor at the top connected to your 6 tonner to keep a good hold on it.
If you have enough room, a good rope on your 941 and keep driving forwards and backwards to lower them up and down.
(There were winches fitted to the immaculate ex-army 941's at Leavesly International and Jacksons, the machines were really cheap so I imagine a full winch set up from one would be very reasonable)
Depends whats avaliable locally I suppose, but we have Winch Tractors interspersed regularily around the local farms for recovery purposes and they turn out at minimal cost.
I now see why you went for the big Js460, that will be some tool but I imagine the hire rate and transport will make that Farmer wince!
If the job was big enough you could buy a big Variable Counterweight long reach (these seem to sell at very reasonable money if you can find one) and move it on after.
Just a few thoughts, post a pic if you can as it sounds a fun one to tackle.
Thanks Eddie.

 

[JoeS1989]

Is the JS460 the one that Abba plant has? We wanted to hire this to do some batters on one of our site but it was hired out for at least 2 jobs after its current which was a waiting list of about 6-7 months....we bought in 3 of our track machines instead!

Joe

 

[Johnny English]

Yeah its the one from ABBA's at Lincoln, its 300 each way transport and 2500 a week self drive, 24m reach weighing it at roughly 60 tonnes, they also have a JS330 with an 19m reach weighing in at 45 to 50 tonnes also but it is a couple of metres short on reach really but only 1500 a week self drive. If the 460 isn't available we might put a 7 tonner in the bottom to clean up any material that rolls too far and do the bottom 5 metres up and then the 330 take over for the other 15 metres, this way just means we have to roll the 1mm HDPE membrane a bit further back in the bottom for the width of the 7 tonner. Have got some pics on me camera so i'll try and down load them tomorrow when I'm having a wind.

 

[Eddiebackblade]

I don't know what W.M Plant would charge you or their avaliability, but they have machines of that size and even larger and might be worth a call.
(One of their Operators has posted on here before I'm certain)
I am shocked that the 460 will go out self drive, I thought it would have a dedicated operator or at least someone with proven experience with the company.
Not too much tackle with a waiting list though good luck to em!

Around here the Farmers would just get a 20 tonner and add a big 'RSJ Donger' (technical term) to the quick hitch with a blade welded on the end!

 

[leverpuller]

I heard tell of holding exavator with a dozer on top with stoung cable

 

[JoeS1989]

That JS460 was at hillhead 07 and is a really nice bit of kit! Can only take the buckets off a JS130 or 160 soo im told by my mate (a JCB fitter) I had a sit in the cab and its the visability is excellent!

Joe

 

[Johnny English]

Yeah, I saw it at Lincs show that year then again at Hillhead, see it fairly regularly round here working, its massive !!!!

 

[JoeS1989]

Yeh its pretty big! Bigger than the 315C i operate!

One day would love to drive 30+ tonne machines!

Joe

 

[AtlasRob]

2500 a week self drive, 24m reach weighing it at roughly 60 tonnes, they also have a JS330 with an 19m reach weighing in at 45 to 50 tonnes also but it is a couple of metres short on reach really but only 1500 a week self drive. If the 460 isn't available we might put a 7 tonner in the bottom to clean up any material that rolls too far and do the bottom 5 metres up and then the 330 take over for the other 15 metres,

Cant you sit the 330 on the batter and do away with the 7t and having to roll the liner back? If the batter is firm and dry! not polished clay with a sprinkling of rain on it, or even put an anchor on it. I would expect to be able to sit a few metres down and do a strip along the bottom, then come back on top and finish the rest.
While its dry concentrate on the lower bit then if it turns damp pull back to the top and carry on, if you go with an anchor tractor at the top it wont matter if it rains. I would love to save that £1000wk hire if I could and if its only got a teaspoon on it :Banghead

 

[JoeS1989]

What about using H E Services for the hire of the machine? They have PC350's or PC450's for hire with a 22 metre reach! Dont know how much they will be on self drive hire hire though!

Joe

 

[Johnny English]

Hi guys checked the gradient on the slopes the other day, one batter is at 1 to 1.6 and the other at 1 to 2. The 330 is considerably cheaper than the 460. Problem is there will be areas of existing clay under the liner where it hasn't been washed away maybe? If there is some clay left under neath we shall have to stay on top where possible, can't really stand to foot the bill of a 330 hurtling down a 20m drop to an abrupt end. The 1 to 1 batter isn't too bad for standing on with a normal machine but the 1 to 1.6 batter looks steep. If there wasn't any existing clay underneath I'd try to put a 320D cat on it or a 312 from Hewdens but untill they pull the liner off we won't really know what we're up against. I've given the bloke the costs for the 460 working on it, if we can get away with less at the time it'll be a bonus for him and us.

 

[Johnny English]

found the pictures of the reservoir

here's the pics of the 2 banks that need renewing.

 

[plantman.uk]

i've been on long reach....bits of junk.....small buckets wait all day to lift the boom and dipper together,booms crack on jcb anyway...slow as snails

 

[heavylift]

why are you fixing it... Leaks
I would say nothing would stay on the slope ... it's going to be slick.
we used dozers to fix ponds that leaked, but it was kinda like starting over.
we did that to get some kind of compaction in the clay to seal it.
they are too slick to put a roller or sheepsfoot on to compact the clay liner, the second time around

most ponds aren't lined here with plastic, unless it's a cell at a dump or sewage plant

we use to pump bentonite in to ponds to seal them, but they didn't have liners

 

[kiwilad]

You wont keep anything on that slope without a good anchor and winch. Why not just put a winch machine on top and use a standard 10-14 ton digger on the bank.We use this system for shovel logging up to 60 deg slope