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european backhoes
- Thread starter 9420pullpan
- Start date
Cat420
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- Pine Bush Ny
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Cool stuff. Anyone ever run an articulated backhoe? They sound good on paper, but I've never seen one in use.
CascadeScaper
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Like a side shift backhoe? They look like they'd be a little tippy all the way out. The trencher we have for our 216 has a hydraulic side shift and when it's hung all the way out the machine operates a little less stable. I'd imagine that backhoe wouldn't be too far from that, especially with stabilizers that only go straight up and down 
It's a bit different to run a scandinavian articulated backhoe since they are all bidirectional. I've run a Hydrema (www.hydrema.com) for a few hundred hours. When facing the backhoe you steer the machine with a thumb roller on the left joystick (right on newer models) while forward and reverse buttons are on the right(left on the new). There is an extra set of pedals for throttle and brake.
When not in gear the thumb rollers control the rototilt. An extra button switches the right roller over to the sideshift or dipper angling, depending on what machine it is.
Will it tip when you hold a fully loaded bucket out to the right with the sidshift all the way to the right? With the stabilizers down and the pendulum joint locked, no. The rototilt ads both leverage and weight and the large grading/backfilling bucket that I used a lot is not what the machine was designed for but it stays put. The stabilizers do fold out like on an american backhoe however, the straight up and down is more of a continental european thing.
It doesn't have a pendulum front axle but rather the articulation point does that job too. Like on an ADT but with a different design. However you can lock it hydraulicly wich makes a huge difference on the stability.
These machines are more of a hydraulic tool carrier then a backhoe. I spent a lot of time driving in the backhoe direction with a pallet fork on the rototilt which is a lot of fun. You can spin the forks 360 degrees and tilt it in any direction, which means you can get pallets in awkward positions. Will it tip with stabilizers up and the pendulum unlocked. Yes, especially when you turn at the same time.
Ofcourse it's main use is still earthmoving and with a bucket that rotates and tilts in any direction there is less need for manual labour. And no, you can't make the rototilt turn by outside force, it's driven by a wormgear.
The Hydrema I operated is the lightest in the class however. The Volvo 6300 on the last pic in the series above is a bit more stable. I was on one site together with a Volvo 6300 and he didn't put down his stabilizers when digging...
I could have gotten away with that with a full front bucket but hardly otherwise. The Volvo was discontinued in -95, the market was too small and it's missed by many. The Huddig 1160 (www.huddig.se) and the Lännen 860 (www.lannentractors.fi)has taken over where the Volvo left. The Hydrema is not as big or technically advanced but it attracts a bigger crowd in more countries. It's also the only one with a powered sideshift, it shifts easily even with a full load but the design takes up a lot of space and gets in the way in tougher terrain.
I believe the reason for this high utilization of electrohydraulics is the different way the market works. The operator stays with his backhoe no matter what, you can't rent one without an operator. While the backhoes use excavator style controls there is no standard for controlling the rototilt or the driving in the backhoe direction which makes transitions between different machines a bit painful.
It's also very common (at least in Sweden) that there is an owner/operator behind the controls.
Sorry for boring you all with such a long thread, hope you didn't fall asleep. :sleeping
When not in gear the thumb rollers control the rototilt. An extra button switches the right roller over to the sideshift or dipper angling, depending on what machine it is.
Will it tip when you hold a fully loaded bucket out to the right with the sidshift all the way to the right? With the stabilizers down and the pendulum joint locked, no. The rototilt ads both leverage and weight and the large grading/backfilling bucket that I used a lot is not what the machine was designed for but it stays put. The stabilizers do fold out like on an american backhoe however, the straight up and down is more of a continental european thing.
It doesn't have a pendulum front axle but rather the articulation point does that job too. Like on an ADT but with a different design. However you can lock it hydraulicly wich makes a huge difference on the stability.
These machines are more of a hydraulic tool carrier then a backhoe. I spent a lot of time driving in the backhoe direction with a pallet fork on the rototilt which is a lot of fun. You can spin the forks 360 degrees and tilt it in any direction, which means you can get pallets in awkward positions. Will it tip with stabilizers up and the pendulum unlocked. Yes, especially when you turn at the same time.
Ofcourse it's main use is still earthmoving and with a bucket that rotates and tilts in any direction there is less need for manual labour. And no, you can't make the rototilt turn by outside force, it's driven by a wormgear.
The Hydrema I operated is the lightest in the class however. The Volvo 6300 on the last pic in the series above is a bit more stable. I was on one site together with a Volvo 6300 and he didn't put down his stabilizers when digging...
I could have gotten away with that with a full front bucket but hardly otherwise. The Volvo was discontinued in -95, the market was too small and it's missed by many. The Huddig 1160 (www.huddig.se) and the Lännen 860 (www.lannentractors.fi)has taken over where the Volvo left. The Hydrema is not as big or technically advanced but it attracts a bigger crowd in more countries. It's also the only one with a powered sideshift, it shifts easily even with a full load but the design takes up a lot of space and gets in the way in tougher terrain.
I believe the reason for this high utilization of electrohydraulics is the different way the market works. The operator stays with his backhoe no matter what, you can't rent one without an operator. While the backhoes use excavator style controls there is no standard for controlling the rototilt or the driving in the backhoe direction which makes transitions between different machines a bit painful.
It's also very common (at least in Sweden) that there is an owner/operator behind the controls.
Sorry for boring you all with such a long thread, hope you didn't fall asleep. :sleeping
Cat420
Senior Member
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Not boring at all! That's exactly the kind of report I wanted to hear. Sounds like another cool toy that I'll have to try some day.
itsgottobegreen
Well-Known Member
That Volvo is sick. :yup
Ford LT-9000
Banned
It sure seems like rubber tired hoes are allot more common on the otherside of the world. I guess tracked machines haven't caught on yet over there :bouncegri
9420pullpan
Senior Member
they use alot of wheeled excavators but there are alot of tracked excavators as well they do alot more demo over there check out my webshots i just updated it
Nice to see someone reading it. Here's some more for Cat420 and everyone else who likes occasional odd balls.
Pullpan is right, wheeled excavators are common here.
Like I mentioned above, a bidirectional backhoe (with rototilt) driven in the backhoe direction is a lot of fun and it's a very versatile tool, moving pallets, backfilling trenches etc.
But it doesn't stand a chance against a wheeled excavator with a three piece boom and a rototilt as long as the ground is firm enough.
While the bidirectional backhoe is a scandinavian affair with only three brands all built in scandinavia and used mostly there too, the wheeled excavator is global. I suspect the germans pioneered it as they are more common then cars in Germany. Volvo, Hitachi, Cat, Daewoo(Doosan), Liebherr, Case, New Holland, Komatsu, Hyundai and Terex all sell wheeled excavators with a three piece boom. The dealers in Sweden equip them with rototilts before they go on their first job.
Tracked excavators and wheel loaders are as common here as anywhere else on the planet.
It might be just as interesting or boring to know what equipment is missing in scandinavia.
Skid steers do exist, Bobcat being the most common, but they are nowhere near as popular or as well utilized as in U.S. I've seen a tracked one once.
Similar thing with dozers, Cat D6 is probably the most common one, probably doing the same thing here as anywhere else on the planet but the versatile small dozer with a six way blade is almost non existent. Too bad, I like those.
Scrapers are also abscent but that's probably because most of Sweden is rocky. I know they have been used for large infrastructure projects in the past.
I've seen some old Case 580 and some New Holland with equal sized wheels and quite a few JCB 4CX. Most of the newer ones are equipped with bidirectional controls by the dealers.
Pullpan is right, wheeled excavators are common here.
Like I mentioned above, a bidirectional backhoe (with rototilt) driven in the backhoe direction is a lot of fun and it's a very versatile tool, moving pallets, backfilling trenches etc.
But it doesn't stand a chance against a wheeled excavator with a three piece boom and a rototilt as long as the ground is firm enough.
While the bidirectional backhoe is a scandinavian affair with only three brands all built in scandinavia and used mostly there too, the wheeled excavator is global. I suspect the germans pioneered it as they are more common then cars in Germany. Volvo, Hitachi, Cat, Daewoo(Doosan), Liebherr, Case, New Holland, Komatsu, Hyundai and Terex all sell wheeled excavators with a three piece boom. The dealers in Sweden equip them with rototilts before they go on their first job.
Tracked excavators and wheel loaders are as common here as anywhere else on the planet.
It might be just as interesting or boring to know what equipment is missing in scandinavia.
Skid steers do exist, Bobcat being the most common, but they are nowhere near as popular or as well utilized as in U.S. I've seen a tracked one once.
Similar thing with dozers, Cat D6 is probably the most common one, probably doing the same thing here as anywhere else on the planet but the versatile small dozer with a six way blade is almost non existent. Too bad, I like those.
Scrapers are also abscent but that's probably because most of Sweden is rocky. I know they have been used for large infrastructure projects in the past.
I've seen some old Case 580 and some New Holland with equal sized wheels and quite a few JCB 4CX. Most of the newer ones are equipped with bidirectional controls by the dealers.
Cat420
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
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- 527
- Location
- Pine Bush Ny
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- Construction, small engine and machine shop work
I don't know why it didn't sink in at first, but I just got the part about driving when facing the back. That would be very useful. The biggest complaint with backhoes is the time it takes to move the machine around when digging. Sounds like this system would help a lot. Obviously not nearly as good as an excavator, but most backhoes are bought as a first "do everything" rather than a single purpose machine.
You are probably right that mobility is a key feature. While the rototilt is a cool tool that makes it possible to spin and tilt the bucket in any direction, the drawbacks are as unpleasant as added weight and less breakoutforce (boom and dipper).
An extra set of controls doesn't bring any drawbacks as far as I can see.
The most advanced and coolest solution to this problem is probably found on the New Holland TV145 ag tractor. Too bad it's not suitable for backhoes as the steering wheel and dashboard swing around with the chair.
An extra set of controls doesn't bring any drawbacks as far as I can see.
The most advanced and coolest solution to this problem is probably found on the New Holland TV145 ag tractor. Too bad it's not suitable for backhoes as the steering wheel and dashboard swing around with the chair.
tuney443
Senior Member
I ran an articulated Pettibone TLB many years ago--very squirrilly,extremely powerful.Afriend of mine just restored this animal Russian hoe--fugly as sin but built like a tank-sorry,forgot the name--he did say there's only 1 dealer in our country with parts for it--NO THANKS.
Cat 920 Sweden
Member
This is a very nice typical swedish setup : Volvo Bm 6300 With quickcoupler in both ends,electronik armrestmounted hydrauliccontrols, Encon tiltrotator also with quickcoupler and a front "finegrading bucket"( or what it`s called in English)
I don`t think you have too many of these over there...? And I must say I think you need two of your "farmtractor like" backhoes to outdig this one..
The 6300 or later EL 70 is based on components from Volvo L70 and it`s a wonderful machine !
I don`t think you have too many of these over there...? And I must say I think you need two of your "farmtractor like" backhoes to outdig this one..
The 6300 or later EL 70 is based on components from Volvo L70 and it`s a wonderful machine !
Attachments
Don't forget the intergrated skylift with 60feet reach ....
Volvo doesnt even market their current line of backhoes in Sweden (Scandinavia?) because they know their salesmen would not be able to sell one to save their lifes. No one wants them over here!
In Sweden Supposedly 225 articulated backhoes and a staggering 11 all-wheel steer ones were sold 2006 according to offical statistics :notworthy
The market leader Huddig (www.huddig.se) and other manufacturers is having a hard time keeping ahead of the demand.
Attachments
Several Italian manufacurers recently keep manufacturing articulated backhoes . But Volvo give up manufacturing these articulated ones years ago. They were bigger than the ones today as well.
They have dediced to shift to "monoblock" chasis. May be beacuse it is more durable and simple (also cost effective)
Bellboy
COPPA
I see a backhoe backhoe-ing with its bucket up like that, and I start running. Surely that is not the the best set up for good stability while you backhoe away?
Last pics is of a Huddig with a man basket mounted to the frame.
A extra tool that the rail and powerline firms is buying.
It got this basket on the side of the cabin.
You cant lift it that high without outriggers down.
I've said it before, but those old Volvo 6300 is a beast.
We got a number of those in our army.
We got two in our unit that lifts like a L120.. when u lower the exc at the back.
And when u look inside at the controls u wonder what year it was produced.
Today all the big producers like jcb and Cat come out with electrojoysticks.
The 6300 got it in -91.
And u controll everything with the joysticks, driving backwards is noe problem at all.
But they have the same disadvantages as the normal backhoes, its not turning 360 degrees around.
And its not a wheelloader or a excavator..
It has its limitations, but shurely a very good machine for buildingsites.
A extra tool that the rail and powerline firms is buying.
It got this basket on the side of the cabin.
You cant lift it that high without outriggers down.
I've said it before, but those old Volvo 6300 is a beast.
We got a number of those in our army.
We got two in our unit that lifts like a L120.. when u lower the exc at the back.
And when u look inside at the controls u wonder what year it was produced.
Today all the big producers like jcb and Cat come out with electrojoysticks.
The 6300 got it in -91.
And u controll everything with the joysticks, driving backwards is noe problem at all.
But they have the same disadvantages as the normal backhoes, its not turning 360 degrees around.
And its not a wheelloader or a excavator..
It has its limitations, but shurely a very good machine for buildingsites.