AlloaExcavating
Well-Known Member
Where is the pictures of this beast? I would love to see some of it in action Dave. Cant say i would ever buy one, but you never know...
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daves thread
- Thread starter dave esterns
- Start date
Perhaps you could explain what you mean by this?
The boom will rub on the tracks with a loaded bucket while you're turning the machine. Here is a video of what looks like a really new 320T with a mulcher. You can see at about 1:15 into the video where the loader arms have been rubbing against the tracks.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=ukzHgnZJfYw
Colorado Digger
Senior Member
For all the words of praise about the jcb where are the pictures? i have asked before. it does not really matter to me because jcb is not strong in my area. i believe you could quiet down many folks with some pictures of your machine.
on reading back through this thread the only pictures posted are mine. if the jcb is so baddass, let's see some pictures.
on reading back through this thread the only pictures posted are mine. if the jcb is so baddass, let's see some pictures.
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dave esterns
Senior Member
the boom does move side to side a tiny bit on the jcb like any other skid steer. it does not, however, flex so one side of the bucket is at a different level than the other like everyone thinks it would.
i dont understand why i need to put pics up. cant you just google jcb skid steer and see pics? perhaps some day if i'm bored i can try to post pics of the jcb on the interweb.
Colorado Digger
Senior Member
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Please, don't sound so friggin arrogant. if you are going to talk up your machine so much, maybe back it up. with a few fotos it tends to make things more believable. no reason for me to argue on this thread....that is all it is..one long dribble of jcb hype. don't bother with a the fotos cause i don't are anymore.
dave esterns
Senior Member
im the one who sounds arrogant? im not arrogant that may just be the way it comes off on the interweb cuz i say what is on my mind real quick like and dont take time to make it sound pretty. i own a 205 jcb skid steer and it is sweet and i would never consider buying anything else i dont see what else there is to debate.
stuvecorp
Senior Member
Dave please don't take this personal but you really do have to show some REAL pics of YOUR JCB all 'nure-d up otherwise this is getting pretty loony...
dave esterns
Senior Member
perhaps i need to clarify what rock solid means. it does not mean literally like a rock. it means i would put my jcb 205 up against any competitive machine for boom strength and their boom would break before mine. as far as the tracked jcb with the boom moving side to side, i fail to see the problem; any skid steer would be like that or worse. i believe the case 450/90xt was known for being the worst for that. and by worse i mean for radial machines. i would hate to see this demonstration done with a super boom with some hours on it. not that thats even a problem in the first place.
the problem is people automatically put the jcb boom up to such scrutiny, when really their preferred brand is worse than the jcb.
if i was buying such a big tracked machine, the only other machine i would consider is a takeuchi because they are sweet.
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dave esterns
Senior Member
Dude you are too much. I was starting to list why and I deleted it. You will have to use your imagination.
"Rock solid" means just that....rock solid. Not just a bit less flex than a different brand. It is this type of bold statement, with no real support of the claim, that compromises your credibility, IMO. What sort of evidence do you have that the other boom would break first? Maybe you really mean that your opinion is that the JCB boom is stronger, though you have no real evidence. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but just because you, and maybe the JCB brochure, say it is stronger does not make it a fact. Time will tell.
I'm sorry but I feel compelled to say that you (Dave) offer no good reasoning behind your claims other than the fact that you are biased towards the JCB, and apperantly, the Takeuchi...."because they are sweet".
How many hours on the Bobcat? I sure hope that the new JCB is tighter. Let us know how tight it is when it gets high hours on it. Maybe then you might be less biased.
I'm not quite sure why I have followed this thread. I am all for a machine that will lead the pack with innovation and quality (in support and product). Whatever brand it is. Dave, I just don't find credibility in your positions. I have no problem that you are pro JCB. I am no longer willing to read about your opinons, that you often offer as facts, when you don't have any real evidence to back them up (like the marketing drivel.....do you believe everything that you read and hear from the JCB site, and/or salesman?). I am unsubscribing. Sorry if I have offended you Dave but I have had enough.
dave esterns
Senior Member
does everyone want me to leave the forums? is that what this has come to?
well it used to be that when i made a claim about the jcb everyone complained i did not own one so my opinion was not legitimate. now everyone says i cant say anything till it has 10k hours on it. my opinion on the boom is based on the fact that we have broken our bobcat boom down by the bucket many times and the boom on the jcb is built so heavy there is clearly no way it would ever break before the bobcat did. the pins that hold be boom to the machine are 2.5 inches in diameter and 12 inches long! not to mention even if the boom would somehow break it has a lifetime warranty on it... not to mention jcb has had the offset boom on their telehandlers for years, and telehandlers lift way more weight, and can extend it! and they have had the lifetime warranty and the powerboom on their skid steers for what 20 some years now? i looked at the jcb boom by the bucket to compare it to where the bobcat broke and they have a straddle mount pin with 1.5 inch thick steel on both sides! i mean if you break this stuff you got bigger problems! (the other side is not as heavy but it doesn't need to be) i could go on and on with evidence why the jcb boom would break after a bobcats. not to mention i believe i made my rock solid comment after i told everyone every once in a while if you get her rockin the boom will bump the side of the cab so...
i feel that when i say something it sweet the claims to back it up are obvious. takeuchis ARE sweet, do i really need to explain why?
and yes, i was comparing the new jcb to the old bobcat because those are the only machines i have. if i had a new bobcat and a new jcb i would have given measurements on the new one for comparison. the point was that the boom moves side to side on all machines so why does everyone pick on the jcb.
well it used to be that when i made a claim about the jcb everyone complained i did not own one so my opinion was not legitimate. now everyone says i cant say anything till it has 10k hours on it. my opinion on the boom is based on the fact that we have broken our bobcat boom down by the bucket many times and the boom on the jcb is built so heavy there is clearly no way it would ever break before the bobcat did. the pins that hold be boom to the machine are 2.5 inches in diameter and 12 inches long! not to mention even if the boom would somehow break it has a lifetime warranty on it... not to mention jcb has had the offset boom on their telehandlers for years, and telehandlers lift way more weight, and can extend it! and they have had the lifetime warranty and the powerboom on their skid steers for what 20 some years now? i looked at the jcb boom by the bucket to compare it to where the bobcat broke and they have a straddle mount pin with 1.5 inch thick steel on both sides! i mean if you break this stuff you got bigger problems! (the other side is not as heavy but it doesn't need to be) i could go on and on with evidence why the jcb boom would break after a bobcats. not to mention i believe i made my rock solid comment after i told everyone every once in a while if you get her rockin the boom will bump the side of the cab so...
i feel that when i say something it sweet the claims to back it up are obvious. takeuchis ARE sweet, do i really need to explain why?
and yes, i was comparing the new jcb to the old bobcat because those are the only machines i have. if i had a new bobcat and a new jcb i would have given measurements on the new one for comparison. the point was that the boom moves side to side on all machines so why does everyone pick on the jcb.
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RTSmith
Senior Member
Dave, I don't know that everyone picks on JCB. You are right that it is sure the unique design, and I hope that it works well for you, and many other new owners. I'm sure that there are several JCB employees that have families to feed as well. And you are right, your speech certainly carries more weight now that you've ponied up the cash for a JCB. And no- don't go anywhere, but you might want to make a $$ contribution to Steve as you singlehandedly are the only person I've seen with his own thread. 
But down here in my neck of the woods, a little dose of humble pie every so often means that we just let our performance show what we can do. Will it take 10,000 hours for us all to accept a JCB- not likely. But just because it has a 2.5" pin doesn't mean it can't break. And we all know that warranties are written by the marketing guys rather than the engineers.
So what might need to happen- is for us all to be rather quiet, until you and the JCB can slap standing productivity standards to smithereens, and have a worthwhile machine left standing at the end of that time.
Just my .02$
But down here in my neck of the woods, a little dose of humble pie every so often means that we just let our performance show what we can do. Will it take 10,000 hours for us all to accept a JCB- not likely. But just because it has a 2.5" pin doesn't mean it can't break. And we all know that warranties are written by the marketing guys rather than the engineers.
So what might need to happen- is for us all to be rather quiet, until you and the JCB can slap standing productivity standards to smithereens, and have a worthwhile machine left standing at the end of that time.
Just my .02$
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Not sure why I bother but I go.
You cant compare sizes of loader arms, pin sizes and general construction without taking into consideration the design of the machine and the engineering required to make a particular design work. What does that mean?
Compare the following two loader arm designs. CASE 445 S-3 and say a John Deere 325. These are about the same ROC (2500). Yet the loader arms are different sizes, Deere being physically larger. Does that mean the Deere has a more durable loader arm? No it does not. Notice that the Deere lifts from the back of the loader arm, meaning closer to the rear pivot point. The CASE positions the lift cylinder closer to the front of the machine. This means the lift cylinder positioning on the CASE does not require such a large arm because the lift cylinder is supporting more of the weight where the Deere uses the loader arms to support nearly all the weight and so the lift arms need to be larger.
The moral of that example is comparing the build design meaning the size of certain components on the JCB and Bobcat is like comparing apples and rocks. The JCB design is a complete departure from a traditional design so comparing pin sizes, arm size and so forth is meaningless.
Just for general information. Some pin designs use a straddle type pin design, others use a canterlever type pin. The Canterlever design requires a much larger pin. Is the Canterlever better, personally I say no, and yes CASE changed from the saddle design to the Canterlever design.
Nobody is taking cheap shots at JCB. Digdeep posted pictures of what is obviously an issue. He also posted pictures of a CASE 380 at a trade show that obviously had some issues with the way the loaders arms were postioned on the machine. There are several of those machines here and they are fine, my machine is fine, but there was obviously some machines that had that issue. It does not mean there is an all out war on JCB or CASE for that matter. This is an open information era. If an OEM makes a mistake depending on who the customer is, it may end up on Utube for everyone including potential customers to see. 20 years ago you likely would not have heard of those same issues. Moral of the story is every OEM must make every effort to get every machine right when it leaves the factory (read better QC). Thats not a bad thing.
Your blanket statements, and unsupported claims Dave are whats pissing people off. I know you dont want to take the time to make what you say "sound pretty", but maybe you should.
You cant compare sizes of loader arms, pin sizes and general construction without taking into consideration the design of the machine and the engineering required to make a particular design work. What does that mean?
Compare the following two loader arm designs. CASE 445 S-3 and say a John Deere 325. These are about the same ROC (2500). Yet the loader arms are different sizes, Deere being physically larger. Does that mean the Deere has a more durable loader arm? No it does not. Notice that the Deere lifts from the back of the loader arm, meaning closer to the rear pivot point. The CASE positions the lift cylinder closer to the front of the machine. This means the lift cylinder positioning on the CASE does not require such a large arm because the lift cylinder is supporting more of the weight where the Deere uses the loader arms to support nearly all the weight and so the lift arms need to be larger.
The moral of that example is comparing the build design meaning the size of certain components on the JCB and Bobcat is like comparing apples and rocks. The JCB design is a complete departure from a traditional design so comparing pin sizes, arm size and so forth is meaningless.
Just for general information. Some pin designs use a straddle type pin design, others use a canterlever type pin. The Canterlever design requires a much larger pin. Is the Canterlever better, personally I say no, and yes CASE changed from the saddle design to the Canterlever design.
Nobody is taking cheap shots at JCB. Digdeep posted pictures of what is obviously an issue. He also posted pictures of a CASE 380 at a trade show that obviously had some issues with the way the loaders arms were postioned on the machine. There are several of those machines here and they are fine, my machine is fine, but there was obviously some machines that had that issue. It does not mean there is an all out war on JCB or CASE for that matter. This is an open information era. If an OEM makes a mistake depending on who the customer is, it may end up on Utube for everyone including potential customers to see. 20 years ago you likely would not have heard of those same issues. Moral of the story is every OEM must make every effort to get every machine right when it leaves the factory (read better QC). Thats not a bad thing.
Your blanket statements, and unsupported claims Dave are whats pissing people off. I know you dont want to take the time to make what you say "sound pretty", but maybe you should.
Colorado Digger
Senior Member
i dunnno dave? are you productiive to the forums? figure it out.. not my deal and i am happy i don't own a new machine. it is all b...s..t so if you want positive feedback on your bjc then figure out how to gain respect. you know i don't care, but to see my peers.. figure it out
i won't sweat a tear when you leave... bye
all talk no walk.. you are playing with big boys here so quit the b.s
no.. i won't miss you
regards, cd
i won't sweat a tear when you leave... bye
all talk no walk.. you are playing with big boys here so quit the b.s
no.. i won't miss you
regards, cd
pafarmer
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2010
- Messages
- 883
- Location
- Somewhere in the woods !
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- Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
Dave...I don't want you to leave the forum, and I wouldn't ever advocate for someone being "run off". All of us can choose to ignore this thread if it's too much. I do really appreciate your enthusiasm, and as I said earlier, I'm glad you're happy with the machine. Keep posting all you want, but expect all of us to give you grief