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CS563E starting issues

Discussion in 'Rollers' started by cb75, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Having a no start issue on a Cat CS563E smooth drum roller. Machine ran fine, operator shut it off and came back an hour or so later and it wouldn't start. Checked fuel system and found the lines without fuel. Primed it up and got it to run. The next day it again would not start. Primed it again and still no start. Checked with ET and had an active code for engine oil pressure. Found the oil psi sensor was cracked and had no continuity between any of the 3 pins. Replaced sensor and that took care of the oil pressure fault. Still no start but now getting codes 1648.04 and 1648.07 for low voltage to fuel injection pump and fuel injection pump not responding.

    Did get it to start twice by wiggling the engine harness while cranking but after it ran for 40-60 seconds it would quit like as if the key was turned off. So we went thru the fuel injection pump electric system troubleshooting guide, originally had intermittent low voltage readings but got that straightened out. Also checked voltage at the canbus wires at the pump. So far all the test results match what the troubleshooting guide says they should be.

    Tried to test the fuel pump solenoid but it can't be accessed well enough to get a meter to it.
    I don't really know what to check next. It's a Perkins/ Cat 3056 6 cylinder Diesel engine. 24 volt system. Cat CS563E model smooth drum vibratory roller S/N ASAO1162. Machine has only 2400 hours on it and when we did get it started it ran very well which makes me think the injection pump itself is fine, that there must be a problem with the pumps control components, or a wiring issue. I tried to order a new engine harness but the $1,500.00+ part is not readily available from Cat, might be able to get one a month from now but the machine is needed like yesterday.

    If anyone has experience working on this machine or the 3056 engine and has any advice, I'd be very grateful for a response. And I'm typing this up on my phone so I apologize if the format is bad or hard to read. Thanks for taking the time to read this far and for any response you may have. Have a good evening.
     
  2. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    Are you sure it ran fine and was shut off and not ran out of fuel?

    Those pumps are very intolerant of being run dry and/or dirty fuel. If any of these scenarios apply;
    Being ran out of fuel and then cranked excessively, or
    Having the fuel filters changed and ditto, or
    Having the fuel filters filled with fuel before installing,
    then it's possible the pump is smoked.

    I'm not saying that definitely is your problem, but don't be surprised if it is.
     
  3. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, originally was told it was ran out of fuel, found out later that it indeed had a half tank.
     
  4. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Everything seems to check out ok on the wiring side of things with the exception of the CANbus which I'm not familiar with at all. There is a twisted pair of wires (a yellow and a green) which go from the engine ECM to the "P40" connector on the rear of the injection pump. From what I've read, there is another ECM or controller inside of the pump. The CANbus wiring communicates info to and from the pump to the engine ECM.
    With the codes I'm getting and the no start condition I'm leaning towards a pump problem now. Anyone know if there is a spec as far as checking the CANBUS for voltage? All continuity checks are good. Just don't know enough about CANbus to determine for sure if I have a problem there.
     
  5. Mark250

    Mark250 Senior Member

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    as Cmark suggests these pumps are touchy to poor fuel handling procedures.
    however before you change out the pump check your pump supply voltage under load .you can do this by removing the back shell on the pump connector and back probe connectors # 6&7 with key on or remove the connector and install a dummy load of 4.7 ohm across pin # 6&7 with the key on
    the 1684 07 code indicates low voltage to the fuel pump and disables starting
    as long as you have checked the integrity of the can wiring between the pump connector and the ECM that's all you can do as the terminators are built in
    how ever if you wish to check the can signal you need a good quality multimeter set to DC volts ,
    back probing pin #1&2 =5 volts
    back probing pin # 1&6 =2.5-5 volts (can high)
    back probing pin # 2&6 =0-2.5 volts ( can low)
    note these voltages should always add up to 5 volts but with an active can system will vary according to the message load and will be a mirror image
    this is a basic explanation only
    Mark
     
  6. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply Mark250. That's one thing i was unsure of, what to look for on the CANBUS wiring. The manual doesn't make it clear and I have very limited experience with CANBus. I will check that out.

    I also read on another forum about checking the metering solenoid. Bad thing is that Cat offers no replacement parts for anything inside the pump as it is a Bosch pump. I suppose Cat will only offer a new or reman pump if anything inside fails.
    Thanks again to Mark250 and Cmark for taking the time to read and respond. I truly appreciate your efforts.
     
  7. Bluox

    Bluox Well-Known Member

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    This might sound silly but replace the seals on the fuel lines and see what happens.
    Bob
     
    DB2 likes this.
  8. Mark250

    Mark250 Senior Member

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    cat don't offer parts but there are some you tube videos on repairing some of the components for those pumps
    Mark
     
  9. Mobiltech

    Mobiltech Senior Member

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    Does this one have a round transformer in the wiring down by the engine ecm. I had one that this transformer was failing on. It supply's power to the injection pump.
     
  10. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Mobiltech, yes this machine has what you're describing, they call it a voltage controller. It has 4 wires going in and out, and supplies the 24 volts to the pump control.
     
  11. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Got it running, had to replace the injection pump. Not sure what exactly failed in it but I'm tempted to take it apart and have a look. Have to turn it in as a core tho.
     
  12. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Senior Member

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    Hey guys could be wrong but from what I found this pump only needs power and ground to idle the fuel shut is internal and unserviceable but is simple in design. Just back probe too large wires on pump connection and monitor. Of course this machine is fixed but discussion is always good right lol
     
  13. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the pump requires 24volts to the ECM or controller which is inside the pump. That controller then supplies the necessary voltage to a metering solenoid which controls fuel delivery to the injectors. I believe it also works as the shut off by interrupting fuel flow. There is also a timing solenoid in the pump that also is connected to the pump controller. All this info is then relayed to the engine ECM via the CANBUS wiring. That's how I understand it works. Could be wrong. The manual isn't crystal clear on theory of operation.

    One more thing about the manual. Has anyone read the procedure on how to put the engine at TDC on compression stroke? It's in the testing and adjusting section, and to me it's the most silly and over complicated bunch of BS I think I've ever read. It involves a temporary fabricated pointer, a spacer and lever that you put between the rocker arm and intake valve... bunch of confusing jargon. There is also a warning about not letting the intake valve hit the piston!??
    I ended up tossing the pages I printed from SIS involving this procedure and did a much simpler version with the same end results.
     
  14. Mark250

    Mark250 Senior Member

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    hi cb75 there is a discussion about this pump in the wheel loader section started by Jackie j on the 25th of June this year the thread title is " injector pump "I posted a picture of the actual tool used to time the pump to the engine
    here is the link if I haven't stuffed it up (didn't work)
    could some one tell me how to add a link to another post please
    Mark
     
  15. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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  16. Mark250

    Mark250 Senior Member

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    Thanks Delmer
    mark
     
  17. cb75

    cb75 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link.
     
  18. Queenslander

    Queenslander Senior Member

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    Are these motors typically difficult to prime after filter changes?
    Last time I did ours, I ensured engine was warm and changed one filter at a time.
    Started without any cranking.