New owners of a 70's vintage (pre-OSHA) BE Hy-Dynamic rough terrain crane, trying to rationalize the load chart on the machine. It came without a block, not a problem. It's claimed rating is 25,000lbs, with two 1/2" sheaves on the boom. The load chart shows a single-line rating of 6,250lbs, which works for a 4-line reeving except I can't find a 1/2" wire rope with that WLL at a 5:1 safety factor - the best I can find is 8x25 with a WLL of 4,640 for a 4-line rating of 18,560. Any ideas about what's up?
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Crane Rating Question
- Thread starter dj_check
- Start date
crane operator
Senior Member
They were probably using a 3.5/1 safety factor. You can see in this old grove chart two different 1/2" cables with a max line pull of 8,880, and single part of 7,200 or 6,150 depending on which type of cable. That chart is for a late 60's early 70's crane.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it, depending on what your doing with the crane, you will have a hard time picking more than 15- 18,000lbs with a 13 1/2 ton rated rig. Although those old b-e cranes are really stout, you just can't hardly get close enough to something that weighs 20,000 to lift it. Yes, you can do it, but its not really a common thing.
Unless your sitting in a yard loading transformers (think really small and really heavy), you don't need the 25,000 lbs of chart. If your really going to be lifting 25,000 all the time, you need a bigger crane. For example, if I have to unload 30,000lbs barges from a trailer (usually 8'widex20'longx 5' tall), I can do that with my 25 ton crane, but if I have to get more than 3-4' away from the jacks (instead of just off the trailer, over the jetty, and into the water) I better bring the 35 ton.
Looks like this?
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it, depending on what your doing with the crane, you will have a hard time picking more than 15- 18,000lbs with a 13 1/2 ton rated rig. Although those old b-e cranes are really stout, you just can't hardly get close enough to something that weighs 20,000 to lift it. Yes, you can do it, but its not really a common thing.
Unless your sitting in a yard loading transformers (think really small and really heavy), you don't need the 25,000 lbs of chart. If your really going to be lifting 25,000 all the time, you need a bigger crane. For example, if I have to unload 30,000lbs barges from a trailer (usually 8'widex20'longx 5' tall), I can do that with my 25 ton crane, but if I have to get more than 3-4' away from the jacks (instead of just off the trailer, over the jetty, and into the water) I better bring the 35 ton.
Looks like this?
yup, that's very close to the puppy. Know anything about the difference between a C250xxx and a C192xxx serial number? Currently, we need to be able to pick 18,000 (three-axle rail truck). We can swing and stay within the radius of the load chart, but being that close to the WLL of the rope has us nervous. We have some other lifts that would be close to 25,000. We are considering replacing the sheaves and re-stringing with 5/8" but the drum may not hold 300ft of 5/8".
crane operator
Senior Member
On the serial # change- if that's the difference between a 13 1/2 ton and 10 ton machine, that look exactly the same, sometimes its just the difference between a chart that shows a 9' radius and a 10' radius capacity. Sometimes it has to do with the number of sheaves on the boom head.
My rt is a grove 730b. The only difference between it and a 740b (30 to 40 ton) is the 40's have 1 more sheeve on the boom head, and a 10' chart rather than a 12' chart. Other than that, its the same crane. Its 12' from the turntable to the outside of the jacks, so a 10' chart doesn't help you much unless what your lifting is inside the outriggers.
I wouldn't start changing sheaves and cable size. Something like that requires a factory authorized change/ engineering approval. That isn't going to happen on that age of machine. I wouldn't change cable size simply for liability purposes, if your a business.
Osha https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=40
This gives the procedure for design factor of 3.5/1. Basically no repetitive duty cycle work and logging of use. Also pre use inspection.
Honestly, its really not enough crane to be lifting 25,000 all the time, you would really have your hands full. Railyard work is one of the places where you can get close enough, to something really heavy, to max out chart.
Just for reference: If you called me and wanted me to come make a lift for you (I'm a "taxi" rental business), and I didn't know the exact situation, you just tell me 25,000lbs off a truck and onto the rails. I'm bringing my 35 ton tms 300 (which charts like a newer 50 ton). If I came and looked at the job, there are situations where I can do 25,000, with a tms 250 (25 ton crane). But I hate showing up without enough crane. The most I've ever picked with my 25's is about 30,000. My 35 ton I've had about 60,000. Quarry work/ offloading trucks.
The outrigger style, of that type of crane, enables you to get really close to something over the side of the crane. But I'm not signing up for 25,000 lbs, over the side and swinging around the nose and back down on the other side. It would probably do it, but if you look at chart capacity between 10' and 15' of radius , and the big drop in capacity in that area, that's what's going to get you into trouble.
My rt is a grove 730b. The only difference between it and a 740b (30 to 40 ton) is the 40's have 1 more sheeve on the boom head, and a 10' chart rather than a 12' chart. Other than that, its the same crane. Its 12' from the turntable to the outside of the jacks, so a 10' chart doesn't help you much unless what your lifting is inside the outriggers.
I wouldn't start changing sheaves and cable size. Something like that requires a factory authorized change/ engineering approval. That isn't going to happen on that age of machine. I wouldn't change cable size simply for liability purposes, if your a business.
Osha https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=40
This gives the procedure for design factor of 3.5/1. Basically no repetitive duty cycle work and logging of use. Also pre use inspection.
Honestly, its really not enough crane to be lifting 25,000 all the time, you would really have your hands full. Railyard work is one of the places where you can get close enough, to something really heavy, to max out chart.
Just for reference: If you called me and wanted me to come make a lift for you (I'm a "taxi" rental business), and I didn't know the exact situation, you just tell me 25,000lbs off a truck and onto the rails. I'm bringing my 35 ton tms 300 (which charts like a newer 50 ton). If I came and looked at the job, there are situations where I can do 25,000, with a tms 250 (25 ton crane). But I hate showing up without enough crane. The most I've ever picked with my 25's is about 30,000. My 35 ton I've had about 60,000. Quarry work/ offloading trucks.
The outrigger style, of that type of crane, enables you to get really close to something over the side of the crane. But I'm not signing up for 25,000 lbs, over the side and swinging around the nose and back down on the other side. It would probably do it, but if you look at chart capacity between 10' and 15' of radius , and the big drop in capacity in that area, that's what's going to get you into trouble.
Thanks, lots of very useful information. The OSHA link is really helpful, it's something I can stand on in discussions about wistful thinking and reality. We make very few lifts near rating, but they need to be right. It came loaded with 1/2" FC rope, that will be replaced ASAP with better stuff before we go for moving the 18,000lb trucks. We can make it in two 18' swings within the load chart, but only after we replace the two-sheave block and the FC rope. Thanks for the help. If you see a two-sheave 1/2" 12.5T block laying around in SW VA, we are interested. Or a service manual for an Allison TT2420 transmission. Or anybody who wants the bare chassis for a Loraine 10WD road crane, outriggers, good Cummins engine, 10WD, we can make the a really good deal.
crane operator
Senior Member
Glad to be of help. The internet isn't always the best source of info, but everyone tries to be helpful around here.
I've probably got the block you need lying around, and as far as the chassis:
If the lorain is a 10' wide chassis, I'm actually looking for a good set of rears and possibly steer axles. It has to be only a 10' carrier, not wider. Would need to know rear ratio's also. Would be great if it was on 14.00r20 rubber so I could use the rims with my tires. More info/pictures please?
Let's play lets make a deal......
I've probably got the block you need lying around, and as far as the chassis:
If the lorain is a 10' wide chassis, I'm actually looking for a good set of rears and possibly steer axles. It has to be only a 10' carrier, not wider. Would need to know rear ratio's also. Would be great if it was on 14.00r20 rubber so I could use the rims with my tires. More info/pictures please?
Let's play lets make a deal......
It's an 8' chassis, with 11.00-20 tires. Front rear axle is a Rockwell LDFPX89 with an 8.43 ratio. Serial number 753811. The Cummins turns over about twice and starts, no smoke, compressor takes four or five minutes to build pressure and the brakes work. It drives in the yard.
We would like to deal with this crane in the smallest number of pieces possible, but we are very flexible. We need a block out of the deal, would hate to see the axles and the engine go to the scrap yard, we can dispose of the rest if needed. I'm available most any time to conduct an inspection.
We would like to deal with this crane in the smallest number of pieces possible, but we are very flexible. We need a block out of the deal, would hate to see the axles and the engine go to the scrap yard, we can dispose of the rest if needed. I'm available most any time to conduct an inspection.
crane operator
Senior Member
Thanks dj check, but that one won't work for what I need, I appreciate it though. I totally forgot to look at my block pile, but I think I've got a 2 sheave 1/2" in there, I'll look and get back to you.