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Cost of Owning vs Renting vs Hauling equipment

Truck Shop

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Drive 10 miles and load, drive 10 miles and unload, drive 10 miles back to shop. That will take at least 2 hours, probably more. At $175 per hour that's $11.67 per mile. Many have a 3 hour minimum as well.

One needs to add that in to the job whether or not they hire it done or do it themselves.
175 divided by 60 on a straight run =2.90, 10 miles here 10 miles there--can't figure that way
for the simple fact loading and unloading doesn't always go as planned. So figure in a radius
and use several 2.50, 2.75 3.00 and so on it's the way it's done towing to cover mileage and
hook, unhook. And right now with fuel costs the national average is 2.69. So for towing it would
be 5.80 mile one way, and can still add in hook fees. same with hauling I've figured it that way
for years.
*
But I know it's not the contractors way or idaho way. and you drove for tom.
 

AzIron

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1121171207.jpg
That set up right there hits 60000lbs on the dot I regularly haul a couple 314s with it in this conglfiguration I have 5000lbs to go

I also have a dump truck and a 20 ton tag this set up is a lot handier and smother driving

I hate hiring transport. It cost money and never works to my schedule demands because I can put a machine on a truck at the drop of a hat we have almost paid for a lowboy in one move under the right circumstances

I got a pc220 and lack the trailer to move it its a minimum of 700 bucks to move it has been up 1100 to move it and on jobs where your limited on hours to get in and out it is hard to schedule sometimes pount is I run with the mindset that the value of transportation is way more than cost YMMV
 

MG84

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Virginia
View attachment 304066
That set up right there hits 60000lbs on the dot I regularly haul a couple 314s with it in this conglfiguration I have 5000lbs to go

I also have a dump truck and a 20 ton tag this set up is a lot handier and smother driving

I hate hiring transport. It cost money and never works to my schedule demands because I can put a machine on a truck at the drop of a hat we have almost paid for a lowboy in one move under the right circumstances

I got a pc220 and lack the trailer to move it its a minimum of 700 bucks to move it has been up 1100 to move it and on jobs where your limited on hours to get in and out it is hard to schedule sometimes pount is I run with the mindset that the value of transportation is way more than cost YMMV
How long is that trailer? How does it turn (cut in on the corners) compared to the dump truck + pintle trailer? Turning is my biggest concern, I have to be able to get into regular farm or residential driveways.
 

skyking1

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Nov 3, 2020
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washington
have you been renting the 130?
If not, then I think the cart is in front of the horse a bit.
What I see is you got a 5 ton and now you see what it does for you.
you see jobs that would be either:
A) possible with a larger machine, or:
B) Easier with a larger machine.

I'd suggest getting what you can haul now. Get an 8 or 9 ton and see how that serves your needs.
1) it is a reasonable progression and not the big outlay.
2) you will use it to do more than the 200 hours a year. Way more.
3) You can move it and take care of your hauls.

What we end up doing in the business is making do with what we have, more often than not. Everybody will agree with that statement.
An 8 or 9 ton loads trucks, it digs a 10' trench in a pinch, it can move some lighter shoring.
Just the loading trucks is far better than a 5 ton.
I think you'll not find many jobs that you can't do with it.
 

MG84

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Virginia
have you been renting the 130?
If not, then I think the cart is in front of the horse a bit.
What I see is you got a 5 ton and now you see what it does for you.
you see jobs that would be either:
A) possible with a larger machine, or:
B) Easier with a larger machine.

I'd suggest getting what you can haul now. Get an 8 or 9 ton and see how that serves your needs.
1) it is a reasonable progression and not the big outlay.
2) you will use it to do more than the 200 hours a year. Way more.
3) You can move it and take care of your hauls.

What we end up doing in the business is making do with what we have, more often than not. Everybody will agree with that statement.
An 8 or 9 ton loads trucks, it digs a 10' trench in a pinch, it can move some lighter shoring.
Just the loading trucks is far better than a 5 ton.
I think you'll not find many jobs that you can't do with it.
Your analysis is exactly right. I've run 6-ton and smaller machines, and 12-ton and larger machines, but honestly I've never even sat in an 8-ton. Next big job I have I might rent a TB290 from United and try one out. I'll be 1500lbs overweight on my trailer, but based on what everyone else thinks is "OK" it'll be fine. If it seems like a good fit, I'll upgrade trailers, then look for a machine.
 

AzIron

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How long is that trailer? How does it turn (cut in on the corners) compared to the dump truck + pintle trailer? Turning is my biggest concern, I have to be able to get into regular farm or residential driveways.
It's 36 or 37 ft its really a trade off from a dump and pintle both get around the same but I can sneak the lowboy into a few places that I can't get a TAG into you could put this setup together for about 40 grand ilmaybe less if you look hard and can do a little TLC

Other guys disagree with my opinion and that's fine but I don't move anything bigger than a 35 mini ex behind a pickup dually or not if your going to stay in this buiss for the long term upgrading trailers and trucks to meet your all around needs is the best long term investment a small gut that does a lot of small jobs can do
 

BC Placer gold

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Enderby, Bc Canada
Seems like a lot of people dislike renting, I don't really like it myself but I have made a lot of money with rented equipment in the past. I also now own most of the types of equipment I've rented in the past. If nothing else it's a good barometer as to what is worth buying based on how often you rent it.

Although we have avoided straight rental; on two occasions we did a rent to own (Hitachi ZX135, ZX120). We penciled out the numbers and figured we should be able to complete a buyout at 3-4 months (80% of rental towards payout). In both cases we were able to achieve this.

Perhaps this could be an option if a fair amount of work is lined up/anticipated?

We really liked the 12 ton size, I haven’t owned a 8-ton but have some time on my buddy’s. With the side mounted boom it loaded out his dump truck quite nicely. (A lot better than our 5 ton Deere!).
 

crane operator

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sw missouri
I have two pieces of equipment that I rent, compact track loaders and telehandlers. I need one or the other about 4-6 times a year, and only for a day at a time.

The little track loader or skid steer, to buy one that I want- is $25-30,000. If I can rent it for a day for $300, and need it 4 times a year, that's only $1,200 a year. I've decided I can't afford to own one. I can rent for my needs for 10 years and not touch what it would cost me, and its a new one each time I rent it.

The telehandler is the same. Only they are more expensive, and its just easier to rent one.

Now I do have a couple small cranes that I only use once or twice a month, that I own. And they have a similar value to the telehandler. The difference is- I can't rent one of those small cranes for a one or two day job. They aren't available in my area, so I own them.

I do most of my own hauling, its more expensive, but I have my schedule in my own control.

I don't do any hauling for other people, I don't really want to be a trucking company.
 

JPSouth

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Dec 15, 2016
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125
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SW Montana
I more or less started with the idea of owning and hauling my own stuff. The building market here has only gotten more nuts over time, and rental rates/hauling costs have accelerated right along with that. My jobsites are often remote, and a rental situation for those sucks as it costs a pile to get equipment delivered, and the rental shop's timelines are such that if I'm 2 or 3 hours short of being done, there's no tomorrow - the machine(s) have to be returned and I'm SOL.

So over the years, kinda looked at where things were going and have slowly morphed from being more in dirt to being more in trucking/moving equipment. Got two or three pieces of equipment and attachments that I wind up renting out to guys I work closely with. Liability insurance for digging deeper than 4' has skyrocketed here in the last two years, so I'm really not sure how much longer I'll stick with doing that - margin just isn't there unless I were to concentrate completely on that. I'm further ahead to farm my abilities out to contractors who are short-handed from time to time, need a heavy equipment operator. Then when that phase is done, I get the work hauling material in/out or demo out. It tends to fill gaps nicely when I'm not trucking aggregates.

All that said, I'm keeping my 9T hoe and skid, usually small jobs here and there I can pick up for grocery money.

I've seen the market for hauling equipment get a bit better. Businesses are seeing lack of available CDL hires, many of them are unreliable and/or can't/don't want to be a multi-tasker as an operator. Insurance has gotten far more expensive and then all the expenses of owning a truck/trailer combo that sits too much. I'm trying to get a triple axle tilt bought as I see the 20T-22T zero or compact swing class of hoe being more and more a thing. We're pretty limited on axle weights here, especially in spring breakup, so my dually is shot down on two counts for that weight class.


BigSkyHaul.png
 

Tyler d4c

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Salix Pa
Yes, a short tandem with walking beam rear suspension and full lock up would be perfect for what I want, but hard to come by around here and $$$. I also would need a very short trailer, 39' is the shortest I can find, 35' would be better. My thinking with a single axle was I could possibly stay under the 55000lb heavy use tax, and still have the capacity to haul a 120-130 size excavator, it'd be close though. Might have issues with rear axle weight on the tractor and/or traction issues.
I'm not sure where you live but a tandem truck can be licensed at 52000 and still hook the trailer on this is assuming the dot in your area is well... you he the idea
 

Zewnten

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Earth
The fastest growing companies I deal with all rent equipment. They even pay us to move the equipment from job to job. No serious down time or repairs eating up their cash reserves. Job changes and they need something else, usually gets a different machine to fit their needs quickly.

Equipment manager told me, and was confirmed by others that it’s a good starting point, his rule of thumb: 25 times a year to determine buying vs renting unless it was a mission critical (if he had to have it, it would have to be on site in an hour)
 

treemuncher

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West TN
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eatin' trees, poopin' chips
Yes, a short tandem with walking beam rear suspension and full lock up would be perfect for what I want, but hard to come by around here and $$$. I also would need a very short trailer, 39' is the shortest I can find, 35' would be better. My thinking with a single axle was I could possibly stay under the 55000lb heavy use tax, and still have the capacity to haul a 120-130 size excavator, it'd be close though. Might have issues with rear axle weight on the tractor and/or traction issues.
Stay under 5000 miles per year and you are exempt from the federal heavy use tax. Or 7500 mile cap for farm use.
 

Oxbow

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Nov 22, 2012
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Idaho
175 divided by 60 on a straight run =2.90, 10 miles here 10 miles there--can't figure that way
for the simple fact loading and unloading doesn't always go as planned. So figure in a radius
and use several 2.50, 2.75 3.00 and so on it's the way it's done towing to cover mileage and
hook, unhook. And right now with fuel costs the national average is 2.69. So for towing it would
be 5.80 mile one way, and can still add in hook fees. same with hauling I've figured it that way
for years.
*
But I know it's not the contractors way or idaho way. and you drove for tom.
Or, to my point, just make it simple/fair and charge by the hour.

The original post is a question from a contractor, so I should think "the contractors way" is pertinent. I'm not sure that what you do while towing is relevant given there are completely different equipment, insurance, licensing, demand/scheduling concerns as it relates to the contractor's project. You will have to define what the "idaho" way is.

I also did not drive for Tom. I leased my equipment to his company for a short period of time. I then obtained my own authority and had no dealings with him after that. I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand either.

MG84, I apologize for getting so far off topic. The questions you have posed are addressed by every small contractor when starting out. I rented all my equipment in the first years of business, and had the dealership deliver anything bigger than a skid steer. My thought at the time was that I could always have exactly the right equipment for the job, be more efficient, and look more professional showing up with newer equipment. If I had an issue with any of the equipment the dealership was there immediately to address it. That was in 2008 though, equipment availabilty was not an issue and the dealership would subsidize the hauling somewhat.

Since then we have moved to a point where we only rent various equipment two or three times a year, and typically for a relatively short duration. The biggest reason for the change is that availability became a real issue, especially in the last three years. Also, we were putting 500 or more hours per year on our primary equipment and the cost per hour of ownership became lower than the rental rate. Add in the convenience of having your machine right there ready to go has a lot of value, just hard to put a number to it.

In regard to hauling, trucks are just a necessary evil, especially for a contractor getting started. That said, for the size of equipment that you have I also believe that a dump truck with tag trailer is probably the best way to go. It will free up scheduling, allow you to go get your own aggregate and have it available when you need it rather than altering the job schedule around material delivery, and allow you to move to the next job at your convenience. That said, if you have a good relationship with another contractor or aggregate company that will haul your equipment for you, it probably makes more sense to invest in the equipment first. It will become clear when you need to invest in a truck.

I wound up buying our transport before equipment. The reason was that it became difficult to have our rented equipment hauled from one jobsite to another. We typically use nothing smaller than a 200 size excavator, paying rent on one for a day or two and the loss of revenue while awaiting transport didn't settle well with me.

A lot will have to do with what you have available in your area as far as companies to transport your equipment.
 

skyking1

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Nov 3, 2020
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washington
The little track loader or skid steer, to buy one that I want- is $25-30,000. If I can rent it for a day for $300, and need it 4 times a year, that's only $1,200 a year.
Those are the same numbers for the Kubota with 5' mower. I can road it from the rental shop, it is a mile away.
I won't be buying a compact tractor when I can get either a 35 mini or the Kubota for that price. Tack on 30 to rent their trailer.
A 35 mini will dig fillagreed circles around some little backhoe attachment.
 

skyking1

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washington
Go out and rent an 85 Deere while you are renting things, OP. it might take a drive to go get it, but you can haul it yourself and you'll probably like it.
I know the TB290 is closer, but I would audition all the players.
One thing about renting:
Cat and the big players do not have weekend hours, and I can get a machine on Friday morning and return it Monday for a 1 day rental. I don't know if United does the same thing or not, but I can get the 8 hobbs hours in that way on Fri~Sat.
 
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Georgia Iron

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20231117_161150_exported_1706372774990.jpg

20,000 k on trailer axles according to a cat scale. It is legal and well balanced. After 100,000 miles of pulling, I have encountered enough road issues to know that the weight controls the truck too much. Trailer can pull you off on the shoulder. Braking is good if it works.

Truck can not stop load if trailer brakes disconnect. If you hotshot like me you come to the understanding if you leave the road the load will kill you. There are so many tractor trailers if they make a mistake and clip you, you don't have enough truck.

A guy I knew got brushed by a big rig in a 350 pulling a Pintel, he got hurt in the wreck. It ended his life as he knew it.

And honestly it just doesn't feel safe. But I do it and still do it...

That being said this F450 is best truck I have ever owned. The BEST by far. A true work truck. No issues other than water in fuel. Even the tires are the best. Continental tires made 98,500 miles with no rotation hauling. And it rides smooth.
 
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Shimmy1

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Aug 14, 2014
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View attachment 304090

20,000 k on trailer axles according to a cat scale. It is legal and well balanced. After 100,000 miles of pulling, I have encountered enough road issues to know that the weight controls the truck too much. Trailer can pull you off on the shoulder. Braking is good if it works.

Truck can not stop load if trailer brakes disconnect. If you hotshot like me you come to the understanding if you leave the road the load will kill you. There are so many tractor trailers if they make a mistake and clip you, you don't have enough truck.

A guy I knew got brushed by a big rig in a 350 pulling a Pintel, he got hurt in the wreck. It ended his life as he knew it.

And honestly it just doesn't feel safe.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, believe me. But, my response is what about pulling a 75 ton load with a tractor?? It will kill you just as easy. I think sometimes things go overboard. Now, if you were pulling that trailer with a 1995 F350 with no back brakes on the pickup, I'm all in. But, 30k behind a 450? The REAL issue IMHO is these new trucks can get that load moving 70 mph faster than you can blink. Along with that, you have a pickup that feels and drives like a car.

Like I said, the truck or the rating isn't the problem in most cases, the driver is.
 

Georgia Iron

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I'm not trying to pick a fight, believe me. But, my response is what about pulling a 75 ton load with a tractor?? It will kill you just as easy. I think sometimes things go overboard. Now, if you were pulling that trailer with a 1995 F350 with no back brakes on the pickup, I'm all in. But, 30k behind a 450? The REAL issue IMHO is these new trucks can get that load moving 70 mph faster than you can blink. Along with that, you have a pickup that feels and drives like a car.

Like I said, the truck or the rating isn't the problem in most cases, the driver is.
Your right. My truck has 475 hp 1080 ft lbs of torque. It will move on down the road. No complaints on power or comfort, but I am counting my blessing because twice I had to come from 75 mph to a dead stop and leave the road. Not fun.
 
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