cat m popularity

[rshackleford]

when the county road department here went to "m's" they had two go from 10 machines to 12 in order to do the same work as the older series cat graders.

 

[smoothoperator]

Depending on how you do the math, I think what you are saying is that county is 20% more productive with the Cat H, or 17% less productive with the M. I guess I can't understand how you could be less productive with the M. Were there other changes done while switching? Operators? Working hours? Taxpayer expectations? I have operated G's, H's, and now an M, and I can't think of any operation that takes longer with the M. BUT, I have been wrong before.

smoothoperator....recommended by 4 out of 5 doctors

 

[Forestblademan]

I've operated motorgraders for over 22 years blading mountain fire roads. I recently rented the 140M for a job on a very narrow steep winding fire road and found the 140M very frustrating. First the cab is way to small, I can't even fit my lunch box anywhere. You'll bump your head when you get in, it's got this wierd cab ceiling. If you do alot of windrowing of material you'll find the heel very hard to see clearly, the joysticks are in the way. You'll have to have the blade almost straight to see the heel without lurching your body forward. The cab widows are angled but don't really give you more blade visibility just more of the circle. Also the blade lifts conceal the front wheels and for my work I must see where my wheels are going. The steering is downright scary and I feel dangerous! especially when roading the machine. I found myself constantly zig zaging. It feels way down on power, I kept stalling it over and over. I could see some plusses with not having to remove your hands for blade control and I had mastered the joysticks by the end of the first day. But I feel Cat blew it with this machine! The joysticks may be the future but this machine in my opinion has serious design flaws. Cat always had the sleekest looking machines on the job site but this thing is UGLY! It may be OK for blue tops in the flats but keep it out of the mountains! I'll keep renting the 140H even though the local Cat dealer keeps offering free days just to get it out of the yard.

 

[bladerunner123]

I've operated motorgraders for over 22 years blading mountain fire roads. I recently rented the 140M for a job on a very narrow steep winding fire road and found the 140M very frustrating. First the cab is way to small, I can't even fit my lunch box anywhere. You'll bump your head when you get in, it's got this wierd cab ceiling. If you do alot of windrowing of material you'll find the heel very hard to see clearly, the joysticks are in the way. You'll have to have the blade almost straight to see the heel without lurching your body forward. The cab widows are angled but don't really give you more blade visibility just more of the circle. Also the blade lifts conceal the front wheels and for my work I must see where my wheels are going. The steering is downright scary and I feel dangerous! especially when roading the machine. I found myself constantly zig zaging. It feels way down on power, I kept stalling it over and over. I could see some plusses with not having to remove your hands for blade control and I had mastered the joysticks by the end of the first day. But I feel Cat blew it with this machine! The joysticks may be the future but this machine in my opinion has serious design flaws. Cat always had the sleekest looking machines on the job site but this thing is UGLY! It may be OK for blue tops in the flats but keep it out of the mountains! I'll keep renting the 140H even though the local Cat dealer keeps offering free days just to get it out of the yard.

I,m with you on most of that, but you do learn how to get in and out of the cab after a while.

 

[980C]

The only ones I can really speak to are the 24Ms. The operators here hate them, they have regular steering problems, and are grossly underpowered. Another big problem is how hard they are to keep control of when conditions are slippery.

Somebody up in Canada has been apparently getting a few new 24Ms. In the past few weeks, I've passed 4 different Mullen trucks in Wisconsin hauling brand new ones.

 

[Kman9090]

To be honest guys it just takes alot of practice to get good at the steering on these things. I am very comfortable roading this machine but have spent alot of hours in one. You have to hold the joysticks with a very loose grip. With joystick steering you tend to want to over correct yourself on steering. As for looks I think these machines look very sleek!

 

[Ross]

Somebody up in Canada has been apparently getting a few new 24Ms. In the past few weeks, I've passed 4 different Mullen trucks in Wisconsin hauling brand new ones.

Over 150 24M's delivered world wide so far .. Not bad ..

 

[YELLOMTLMILITIA]

The steering has been updated twice and the new steering flash transitions through the gears very nice.
One issue that some operators have is that the friction packs in the joysticks are to tight causing the operator to use more force when modulating the joystick wich tends to leave the operator feeling like he may over correct. In my opinion the looser the friction pack the easier it is to steer. I use the old workshop saying that a blunt tool is more dangerous than a sharp tool to back up my theory.

A second issue that could hinder confidence is that 90% of the M series could probably use an articulation calibration by a trained person. Most machines articulation sensors are calibrated to the articulation lock pin wich could cause the machine to be up to a full two degrees out of cal. If driving behind the grader 2 degrees will be almost a full tire width offset from eyeballing itnwith the rear tandems This will cause the machine to constantly veer off the road when the steering joystick is in the center detent.

I have ran the M series with and without the center detent, it really makes no difference to me, but with a fine tuned M series the detent shouldnt be a problem. The only thing that removing the detent does is that it covers up the articulation sensor being poorly calibrated. When an operator drives an M series especially at high speeds he naturaly wants to hold the steering stik in the detent. On apoorly calibrated M series he will always have to counter steer slightly or he will always be bringing the machine back to what he feels should be straight causing him to make excessive steering corrections.

As far as power goes a the 140 M has a 3 liter smaller displacement engine tha the 140H. With changes in emmision regulations the good ole days having a huge heavy engine giving you that low end tractor lugging ability are coming to and end. You can thank your congress for that one. On the brightside the new 140 Ms are coming out with C9 engines Awd and tandem. If you are running an M with a C7 or a C6.6 what you can do is just simply set your cruise control button to the bottom side and then tap your throttle switch up to about 1100 rpm to prevent stalling at low rpm when hydraulics are in use.

 

[Ross]

Never had any complaints regarding the Joystick detent ..

Theres allot of PIP's going on at the moment ...

 

[bladerunner123]

The steering has been updated twice and the new steering flash transitions through the gears very nice.
One issue that some operators have is that the friction packs in the joysticks are to tight causing the operator to use more force when modulating the joystick wich tends to leave the operator feeling like he may over correct. In my opinion the looser the friction pack the easier it is to steer. I use the old workshop saying that a blunt tool is more dangerous than a sharp tool to back up my theory.

A second issue that could hinder confidence is that 90% of the M series could probably use an articulation calibration by a trained person. Most machines articulation sensors are calibrated to the articulation lock pin wich could cause the machine to be up to a full two degrees out of cal. If driving behind the grader 2 degrees will be almost a full tire width offset from eyeballing itnwith the rear tandems This will cause the machine to constantly veer off the road when the steering joystick is in the center detent.

I have ran the M series with and without the center detent, it really makes no difference to me, but with a fine tuned M series the detent shouldnt be a problem. The only thing that removing the detent does is that it covers up the articulation sensor being poorly calibrated. When an operator drives an M series especially at high speeds he naturaly wants to hold the steering stik in the detent. On apoorly calibrated M series he will always have to counter steer slightly or he will always be bringing the machine back to what he feels should be straight causing him to make excessive steering corrections.

As far as power goes a the 140 M has a 3 liter smaller displacement engine tha the 140H. With changes in emmision regulations the good ole days having a huge heavy engine giving you that low end tractor lugging ability are coming to and end. You can thank your congress for that one. On the brightside the new 140 Ms are coming out with C9 engines Awd and tandem. If you are running an M with a C7 or a C6.6 what you can do is just simply set your cruise control button to the bottom side and then tap your throttle switch up to about 1100 rpm to prevent stalling at low rpm when hydraulics are in use.

Very informative post !! I always felt that my stick was too "tight", but no one ever told me it could be changed.

 

[hotrod49er]

Get rid of the detent and you can steer a whole lot straighter. I have a 140m awd and this past winter only had to back up about 6 times to get through some drifts but it sure likes it fuel. Plowing snow I average 7.5-8 gallons an hour, road grading 5.6-6 gallons an hour. Fuel consumption goes down grading in 5th gear at about 1300rpms compared to 4th gear 2100rpms both gears traveling around 6 mph.

 

[keerym]

Just to be clear on the detent, removing it eliminates the need for perfect articulation calibration as someone else mentioned. Removing it also helps when there is crown on the road. Just like in your truck, you're always making small steering corrections for wind or road crown. Operators would fight in and out of the detent making these corrections, then go back to the detent position thinking the machine would go stright. It does help most operators to have it removed. All machines coming out of the factory are now detentless.

hotroder49er, your fuel consumption is a little higher than I've seen. You must work the machine pretty hard. I see in another post your running a 16' blade, which I can understand uses more fuel. Do you run that year round? Out of curiocity, are you using the monitor in the cab to check fuel consumption?

 

[hotrod49er]

Run 14ft blade in winter months and no not using monitor for fuel consumption. But it is pretty accurate on how many gallons used in a day. Also should have stated that I'm grading in pretty hilly territory 7% to 9% grade.

 

[myeffy]

All i can say about Series Ms is PASSSSSSSS wanna know more mssg me

P.S. "DONT BUY ONE"

 

[myeffy]

To add to that Cat were the BEST no comparison. ( my opinion now is TONKA TOYs DESIGN is THE BETTER ) ( KOMATSU DID WHAT CAT SHOULD HAVE DONE ) Over N Out.

 

[satmike]

I am a 20 year grader operator. This is my forth year in my 140m and I love it. 95 percent of the time I am finish grading. The only thing I don't like is the clutch in reverse. I have a little plate mounted on my ripper bar and we do parking lots with a lot of corners. If I back in hot and jam on the breaks when my helper says stop then it's good. If I stop short and have to back up a little it's tough.
The steering is a total non issue. I have the detent and it is not perfect but doesn't bother me grading or roading. I grade around a lot of manholes and valves and I think I can see a lot better. I wheel roll a lot of edges with green concrete and seeing where the front tires are is no problem.
As far as operator comfort, The seats keep getting better, the M is better than an H and the H was light years better than the G's and heat and AC are far superior. I remember running our G's and when you graded with the wind all the engine heat would end up in the cab and when you were going onto the wind I would freeze.
When ever I get in one our H's now it feels like a dinosaur.
As for fuel and I don't get higher than third much finishing it's pretty good on fuel.
AS for plowing snow I don't know, as I go to Mexico for the winter.
Later Mike

 

[Nige]

Just came across this thread. We run 3 x 16Ms. Everything that's been posted above I would agree with to a point. My comments from a maintenance & specification standpoint are these: -

1. As usual for the 21st Century the customer gets a half-developed machine and does rest of the development work in the field. I feel sorry for those who got a really early machine if our first 2 were anything to go by. Each one was in the dealer shop 6 weeks for a Bundled Upgrade Program that involved at total of 26 Product Programs, more than half of which were Safety or Priority. We did however get a loaner machine while this was done.

2. We have 2 machines with Serial numbers close together, a 3rd over 1 year newer. The 3rd one has had much less Product Programs on it that the first 2 had, so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Let's hope it's not a train coming the other way..!

3. Operators like the increased visibility resulting from the removal of the "antler rack" and the new cab design with the angled doors. One point though, get whoever's buying to specify the access ladder/platform option instead of just steps. It makes window cleaning so much easier.

4. Lots of modifications to steering (software & hardware) because of the ECM throwing errors and operators shutting machines down. Getting the steering joystick to synchonize with the wheels is an art you learn. I always advise operators to park the machine with the front wheels off-centre, that way the joystick picks up first time.

5. Because of "smaller" engines and lack of engine braking (who remembers 3406 engines in 16G/H fondly?) brakes tend to burn up. 16M now come with an exhaust brake as standard. We had ordered them anyway.

6. Tandem oil viscosity is critical because of braking issues. We went down from SAE 50 TO-4 to SAE 30 TO-4 (kinda counter-intuitive) and got a distinct improvement in oil analysis results.

7. You MUST use SAE 60 FD-1 oil in the circle drive if you want it to live.

8. At the moment we are battling transmission issues. We have had 3 transmission failures, one on a transmission rebuilt in the delaer shop less than 500 hours previously.

9. Because we have so many other machines on site with major quantities of electronics on them we have the capacity to work on and diagnose problems in that area and it doesn't worry us.

If anything else comes to light I'll post it here.