CAT D6r quetions

[schwic]

Looking at buying my first dozer, 2007 d6r with 4200ish hours. What do I need to look out for (besides undercarriage)?? Any known issues with this year machine?? More concerned about the engine, read too many horror stories about the C9 pump failing and taking out injectors... Is this still a concern on a newer machine?? Thanks in advanced!

 

[DPete]

You can check for codes on the dash, if there aren't any that's good, see how it turns and shifts, stick your head under the track and check the swing frame pivot shaft for leaks ( they run in oil) and should not show any oil. I bought an 05' last Fall with almost double the hours, had a few codes one was the parking brake needed adjusting inside the shift tower, also had a code for the trans which turned out to be an abraded harness in the belly pan area, all minor . Good Luck, nice machine complicated but nice.

 

[Construct'O]

I have a 2006 Series III D6R and it has system one tracks.Guessing the one your looking at does also.Check to make sure you don't have bad rails as in dry pins.If your rails haven't been changed out yet it's a good chance they have dry pins and they may be ready to break if run dry.

The newer system one rails are now generation II.I just put on a set last spring after having pins and bushing short and ready to come apart.My machine had 4600 hundred hours when i got it and when i replace them it read 4800.

Has to also replace huie fuel pump,not because of pump bearing going out and taking the injector out.There was a small bolt in the back of the pump that the head broke off and the motot oil was pouring out it.Replaced with reman pump,didn't have to do anything to the injectors.Pump not to bad around 1200 dollars close too that.

Also had to replace a sensor for the fuel boost.Had a code show up and was loosing power.036 1185.10 close to that not sure exactly.It has always had a change in the rpm when you was pushing.At high idle would have a small slow down and back up.The new sensor took that out soo that was good.Sensor was like $167.82 right on top of engine right side in the head easy to get too ,compared to others.

Check eqaulizer bar for play.Mine has oil filled end pins instead of the grease ones.

I still like the old 3306 compared to the C9,but my machine is a lot better on fuel and seems to have good power.Change the engine oil like 200 hours or less and will help on the pumps.I'm been trying to get my done at 200.Other small things that i notice compared to my older R.

Seems ligther in the assend compared to the old R.The newre R has the 30" pads xw,and the older R has 24" xl, with a XW blade it.I put it on the xl machine by adding extra trunion ball spacer to match up the wider push arm on th wider xw blade.11'6" compared to the old xl blade that was 10'6". Good luck

 

[C130 eng]

I have a 2005 6R And have to agree Constructo 3306 was much better maint wise. I spent about $7500 on a reman huie pump and 6 injectors this winter. Now that we got that fixed it runs tip top but with the 3306 this would have not been an issue and of the c9s I know of injectors and or huie pumps are an issue and at $500 an injector who needs that. If I had to do it over I would have gone with and older 6R with the 3306. Im not sure it is a common prob with all Rs but have have been into both final drives. I just got done putting an axle seal in one yesterday and had some bad bearings. Got really lucky one bearing had one foot in the grave but caught it early no major damage. Just my thoughts,

 

[watglen]

I just bought mine, a 6R III. 2006, 6500hrs.

Haven't learned much about it yet. It works great, but i'm easily impressed.

One thing I do know is the system one undercarriage on a 6 has been a serious issue for CAT. Mine just got its third complete set (factory plus 2 replacements) CAT has warrantied the undercarriage on my tractor for its whole life since new, so all undercarriage cost has been theirs. That tells me they know something is not right.

The most recent set is the newest gen II system one. 4000 hr warranty, supposed to be better.

We'll see.


Good luck.

Ken

 

[schwic]

we'll now I'm getting a little more gun shy on this machine, it has the system one under carriage. Everything is original on it. Spoke with the owner and he rated the undercarriage at 70-75% but it didn't sound like he was ever running the machine. Here are some pictures I have of the under carriage, haven't looked at it in person yet. What am I looking at for dollars if the pins are dry and have to replace rails & pins?? Can the gen 2 be fitting to a system 1 machine?

 

[schwic]

few more

 

[Construct'O]

You need a few pics back away from the side to see more.Usually standing back and looking at the rails from the side the full length of the machine,look for shiny areas in the rail where the links hinge.If the machine has been running lately you will be able to see the shiny area ,if there are any getting dry normally.

At least they are clean enough to look at.If you see shiny ones drive the machine forward and stop at them and look up under the rail where the pins and bushing are.Look for wear at the outer ends of the pins where they hinge.That is where i found mine coming apart.

Just from the pictures you have it is hard to see the whole area i need to see,but looks to have none right there in the small areas that you show.The rail high looks good ,but that isn't where the poblem is it is in the pin and bushing area.

If those are the orginal tracks and the machine was sold by your local dealer(Ziegler or Altofer??) then they might help you out,but if the machine is coming from some where else they won't want to do much.I did get some goodwill help on my machine(bought away) not much ,but a liitle.

The pads are shoot.Don't waste your time getting rails and using them old pads.Here in Iowa you need good pad height for our mud you know!!!!! Tall pad height mean better traction,you can get by with wore out pads where it is rocker gorund,but not here.

The cost for mine was around 25K new rails,pads 30" xw machine,bolts, also the removeable links(get this for sure other wish you have to have Cat come and press the pin out everytime you need to split the track)extra cost,new bottom rollers.Moved the front idles to the rear and the rear to the front.Used the old sprocket for now and top carrier rollers.WE removed and install the tracks ourself.

Looks like you could do about the same thing.Gives a little idea what your looking at.Just the little bit i see yours might be good for a few more hundred hours,but you need to check wear .Better yet get Cat track man to check them out then you will know for sure what you have.Plus he will be able to tell you if they will good will anything .

Don't take the sellers word on how much wear there is.There is always more wear then they say or think!!!!

Is the machine XL or XW,see it has a ripper.Good luck

 

[Construct'O]

Yes the generation 2 is just a update of the system one.I gave a long thought of going back to the old style rails,but had to get different idles and rolls,which i got new anyway.The catch was having to do some cutting on the roller from for the idlers to fit on the system one frame.The plates(bolted) you see on time of the frame comes off,but the the ears that they bolt to has to be trimmed to get the old idlers to fit.Just didn't want to bucther on this new of a machine.Altho it could have been done and looked okay,with time.

Still not impressed with the system one rails and set up.see the ripple on the front idles that is from the pins riding on top of the idle.As they wear and you dozing on hard dirt or ground the machine wants to bounce the dozer up and down.More a problem when finishing on super hard ground .Or when you backing down the back side of a (slope)like on the terraces we build it makes for rougher ride.Just my thoughts.Also if your running laser or GPS then it is going to just make you system try working that much harder to keep up with the bounce of the dozer blade.Not a big deal hogging dirt,just finishing.Wet ground also not so much.

 

[DPete]

Undercarriage used to be so simple on the oval track before SALT. Turn the pins and bushings when they needed it, often ran a second set of pins and bushings on the same rail, no oil to leak or seal surface to worry about, they might have squeaked a little but they were OK by me. Progress or regress?

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Undercarriage used to be so simple on the oval track before SALT. Turn the pins and bushings when they needed it, often ran a second set of pins and bushings on the same rail, no oil to leak or seal surface to worry about, they might have squeaked a little but they were OK by me. Progress or regress?

I have often wondered about that myself DPete. Does SALT run at less money? I couldn't give a damn about the squeaking.

In the scrub we could often get a turn on the second set of pins and bushes, rebuild the rails then run them to destruction.

Cheers

 

[DPete]

Yair . . .



I have often wondered about that myself DPete. Does SALT run at less money?

Not in my opinion, I have a perfectly good looking set of Cat rails off our 6R in the junk pile because they wont hold a seal and are turned dry, running a dry turn on a high track is supposed to be a no no so I changed them out. How can that be cost effective?

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . DPete

Not in my opinion, I have a perfectly good looking set of Cat rails off our 6R in the junk pile because they wont hold a seal and are turned dry, running a dry turn on a high track is supposed to be a no no so I changed them out.

Mate that would bring tears to my eyes . . . it seems so wrong. What are the issues with running dry pins on a high track? In my ignorance I had just assumed when the oil leaked out they would act like a standard link.

A bit O/T but I wonder why it is that the whole world runs on left handed measuring tapes and rules? That is to say most folks are right handed and they take the tape or rule in the left hand and the chalk or pencil in the right or natural writing hand . . . they hook the end of the tape over the end of the piece of steel or ply . . . and what happens? The numbers are upside down! LOL.

I always reckon conventional tapes are for left handed people.

Cheers

 

[D6 Merv]

yeah gotta agree too scrub, personally would try drilling a tiny hole in the rubber, getting a power grease gun with a needle point and try giving them all a shot or 3 of grease and then running them to distruction. am first to admit this would work far better on a oval track than high track; as have heard storys of them guillotining pins when they run dry ? just curious if anyone has ever tried as can,t see theres much to loose except abit of grease and time; and that becomes fairly free in the middle of wet winters !
Depends on curcumstances I suppose for me would work others in high production, wanting zero downtime, its different !
I,m just one of those people who have to fix and pay for what I break so I want the last drop out of every dollar !

 

[schwic]

@ construc'O, it is an xl and I'll do some more investigating to see if the pins are dry... Every time I've called over to zeigler to ask questions or run a serial number it always seemed as if I was a total inconvenience to them so I won't expect much if I get a machine bought out of their territory but for the price difference I could spend $20,000 on an undercarriage and still come out ahead.

Here's my newbie question, what is the real problem with running the rails when the pins go dry? The links quit flexing as they should adding pressure on the bushings and eventually one breaks or comes apart?

 

[DPete]

The pins are soft ( compared to the old dry tracks) and wear fast without lubrication, I ran a set of salt turned dry out on a D8H, never got done adjusting and when that internal wear happens it stretches the pitch which wears the segments also the track gets snakey which is hard on roller flanges. On the high drive the track makes an extra turn so the problem multiplies, the salt track was developed for the high drive tractors. Also the added friction is supposed to be hard on the final drives. In my case above I had real good rollers and idlers so I replaced the rails, now it will run a long time. Never been a real fan of the high drive tractors, if you look at it you will see the sprocket only has 3-4 bushings contacted compared to 180 degrees on the old oval track so all the machines power is concentrated on about 1/3 of the surface. Any way good luck. Can't comment on the system 1 except to say my undercarriage guy recommends to stay away from it.

 

[Construct'O]

@ construc'O, it is an xl and I'll do some more investigating to see if the pins are dry... Every time I've called over to zeigler to ask questions or run a serial number it always seemed as if I was a total inconvenience to them so I won't expect much if I get a machine bought out of their territory but for the price difference I could spend $20,000 on an undercarriage and still come out ahead.

Here's my newbie question, what is the real problem with running the rails when the pins go dry? The links quit flexing as they should adding pressure on the bushings and eventually one breaks or comes apart?

You pretty much answered your own question,plus the internal size of the pin in the bushing is smaller on the salt rails compared to the old rails that was dry rails.The old dry rails had bigger pins running metal against metal where the salt rails has to have room for the oil in them to travel around and the length of the pin.

You can run them dry they just start to have the issues faster that DPete posted.If you have the rails checked before you buy the machine in the area it is at ,if the owner bought it new they might be able to get something done from the Cat dealer there.I noticed it had RB on the photo.So if it is an auction machine probably not going to get much done.Good luck.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Showing my age and ignorance again . . . I imagine that with the lesser contact area external bush wear would be higher on a high track, so do you turn them or are they supposed to run the life of the rails?

Cheers