Cat C9 IN PEGSON

[d4c24a]

Hi i have a friend with a pegson metrotrack around an 07 , it is become a nightmare to start ,it will start but needs winding over a fair bit and a sniff of the nasty stuff can anyone ID the engine as to whether it has the HEUI or not

Arrangement no 284-4627
serial no 66602340

cheers graham

 

[Nige]

The engine is actually a C6.6. We had one in a Sandvik double-deck screen and ended up replacing the complete engine at relatively low hours because it was so fcuked it wasn't economical to repair it. They don't like dirty fuel at all is my experience, the primary filter/water separator is 18 microns, the secondary filter at 4 microns, but we preferred to use 2 micron in that position.

The fuel system is a common rail, so the problem could be the pump or the injectors - or both - or even the pressure relief valve which is the cheapest part to change.

 

[d4c24a]

Thanks Nige , i have only spoken with him over the phone ,and he thought it was a C9 , so hence why i got pictures sent to me along with numbers
where would one find the pressure relief valve

cheers graham

 

[Nige]

Item 40A (circled) on the diagram below. Part Number is 305-5291. If it's never been replaced before I suggest changing it as a 1st step because they do wear internally and cause the system to lose fuel pressure. If that doesn't do it then it's deeper diagnostics first, probably closely followed by either a pump or a set of injectors - or both.

 

[Mobiltech]

I would start with an injector leak test. You can also try blocking off 1 injector line at a time to see if starting improves.

Thanks Nige , i have only spoken with him over the phone ,and he thought it was a C9 , so hence why i got pictures sent to me along with numbers
where would one find the pressure relief valve

cheers graham

 

[d4c24a]

Thanks for the replies , as far as he knows its not been replaced , so will try that first , it is always service on time , but he was interested top hear about putting a better filter on it Nige :notworthy
will update when the valve has been changed

cheers graham

 

[Nige]

.......but he was interested top hear about putting a better filter on it Nige

It may well be that both the HP fuel pump and the injectors have already gone South. As Mobiltech suggested the best thing for it would be an injector leak test and/or block off the injectors one at a time to see if starting improves. A word of warning there though, if all the injectors are leaking you can blank one off and cut the leakage by one-sixth which will improve starting anyway. It doesn't mean that particular injector is bad until you have tested the engine by blanking off each injector in turn and observing if the starting is different depending on which injector you had blanked at the time.

The relief valve isn't cheap - $180.

 

[theironoracle]

D4c24a

I have a Metrotrak with the c6.6, at 5000 hrs it has had all injectors and the high pressure pump replaced at least twice. The last time I paid for it, $7000 U.S. Including two day trips for the cat tech. My unit is shown in my thread "Pegson plant info" or something like that. FYI I found my fuel tank cracked on the starter side of the engine near the front I assume from the lack of bolts between the engine cradle and the crusher frame. This crack allowed lots of rain water to enter my fuel system. TIO

 

[theironoracle]

If your going to diagnose by parts replacement which is a good idea please be sure to replace high pressure sensor #39 in Nigel's pic. This is where the pressure reading comes from yo not fire injectors til system reaches 4000?psi or so. TIO

 

[d4c24a]

thanks for all the replies changed out 40A and no change , does anyone have the part no for # 39

cheers graham

 

[Nige]

#39 is Part Number 311-6342. You also need washer 309-8006 (#39A) if you're replacing it. Price about $250 the pair.

 

[JPV]

I have lurked on this forum for years but this thread made me register. Does that machine have an engine temperature readout? I have had a 6.6 in a 325d that started very hard, when it did start would have some serious diesel knock and smoke, couldn't figure it out after doing all the usual checks and was planning invasive surgery of the fuel system. I noticed that when the key was on engine off cold the temp guage showed engine was hot. As soon as it started it would instantly return to normal. I changed the temperature sending unit and that solved all problems, it was trying to start in hot mode when it was cold, just wanted to mention it! Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[theironoracle]

JPV

This is why we are all on here! I will take this info and check it against my engine, thanks!....TIO

 

[d4c24a]

Thanks for the quick reply Nige

 

[theironoracle]

Thanks for the quick reply Nige

Be very careful not to over torque that sensor into the copper washer it is super easy to ruin the washer, maybe purchase an extra washer/seal....TIO

 

[Nige]

If you can't get a new copper washer, try this. Heat up the old one with a blowlamp and allow it to cool on it's own. That will anneal it and soften it back to pretty much the same state it was in when it was new.

 

[Cmark]

If you can't get a new copper washer, try this. Heat up the old one with a blowlamp and allow it to cool on it's own. That will anneal it and soften it back to pretty much the same state it was in when it was new.

It's a rare occasion when I'll want to contradict you Nige, but copper is annealed by heating then quenching, the opposite of steel.

 

[Nige]

I always thought that the annealing process for any metal was to heat it to a certain temperature then cool in still air to ambient temperature.

However it would appear that we are both correct ...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy) "Copper, silver, and brass can be cooled slowly in air, or quickly by quenching in water, unlike ferrous metals, such as steel, which must be cooled slowly to anneal."

 

[Cmark]

I always thought that the annealing process for any metal was to heat it to a certain temperature then cool in still air to ambient temperature.

However it would appear that we are both correct ...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy) "Copper, silver, and brass can be cooled slowly in air, or quickly by quenching in water, unlike ferrous metals, such as steel, which must be cooled slowly to anneal."

That's very interesting.

I was taught the basics of hardening, tempering and annealing steel by my dad. One day in metalwork class at school, the subject of annealing copper came up. The teacher told us the heat and quench. I thought that this was pretty counter intuitive, but he demonstrated it and it actually worked and that's how I've done it ever since.

If I remember,( :drinkup ), I'm going to experiment with both methods at work tomorrow. I'll report on the results.

 

[Nige]

I was taught the basics of hardening, tempering and annealing steel by my dad.

S'funny, that's who taught me also .......