Cat 613 torque converter.

[HSV127]

I have a developing oil leak out the output shaft seal on the old 613's torque converter that I'm gonna have to tackle in the near future, my question is, the output shaft has about 10mm (3/8") end play, is this normal or am I gonna find more wrong than I bargained for? Torque converter seems to be working fine other than the leak, temp is good. Thanks in advance.

 

[kshansen]

Any chance for a serial number?

I did a quick look at the Torque converter in a 72M s/n and the output yoke on that one has a ball bearing beind it that I would not expect to have any noticable end play in. The far end ( up by the flywheel) of the shaft also has a ball bearing locating it. So 10mm end play is something that might indicate deeper problems. If I had the S/N I might be able to send you some service or parts pages.

ken

I have a developing oil leak out the output shaft seal on the old 613's torque converter that I'm gonna have to tackle in the near future, my question is, the output shaft has about 10mm (3/8") end play, is this normal or am I gonna find more wrong than I bargained for? Torque converter seems to be working fine other than the leak, temp is good. Thanks in advance.

 

[Nige]

I'm with Ken. That thing runs on 2 ball bearings so it should have no noticeable end play at all. 10mm indicates something major is amiss internally. Maybe it's a bearing failing has caused the output shaft seal to go out. Either way be prepared for a major job, it's not just the seal that's your problem IMHO.

 

[HSV127]

Sorry guys I should have known better than to ask a question without a S/N, She's an early one: 71M 588.
I knew you were gonna tell me there shouldn't be any end play! I have a parts book for it and can see the two bearings you're talking about and couldn't see where any end play could be coming from, just wanted to get an expert opinion from you guys. Thanks.

 

[Nige]

There are 2 bolts on the output shaft that hold the Yoke in place. I suppose you've checked they are tight ..?
Other than that it has all the makings of something expensive.

 

[HSV127]

Hooked into getting the torque converter out today after you guys confirmed my concerns. Found the problem, one decidedly second hand bearing.



Problem is, is that it has worn into the carrier a bit and now the sealing rings that run inside it barely have enough meat to seal on, Is it possible to get that built back up or should I just replace it?
I can't see any other damage other than this.

 

[Nige]

If you have a good machine shop handy they ought to be able to build that back up. However find out the cost beforehand because it may end up being cheaper to buy new..

 

[HSV127]

This doesn't look good!

Ok so I thought there was no other damage but I was mistaken, you can see in the pics where they have been gnawing away at each other.

I'm no expert on torque converters and was wondering if they need replacing or is it not going to affect performance and don't worry about it?

The problem being with new bearings fitted I'd say the gap between them will be about 10mm.

Thanks for the help guys, it's much appreciated.

 

[HSV127]

Got the torque converter sorted, ended up costing $1,200 for the parts.
Got the carrier repaired for $300, wasn't too bad considering a second hand one was $600 and a new one $1,200. They just machined it out a bit and pressed in a bush with a top hat on it to bring it back to new.

 

[lantraxco]

So, since I'm not a torque converter expert either, what was causing all the thrust load? That bearing wasn't designed for heavy thrust and it shows it, the balls augered their way out through the races pretty much.

 

[HSV127]

As far as I could tell it was just old age and the fact that it was the only one of the two bearings that was combatting the natural end thrust generated in the torque converter, the front bearing in there only has a circlip that stops it from moving rearward so it had just slowly worked it's way forward instead of providing any end thrust.
Thats my theory anyway, clear as mud haha

 

[mkp613]

Hey there iv just purchased an old non working 613 trans where do I find the serial number and arrangement . I pulled the filter fond a little chunk k of meter and a lil ball bearing and oil smells burnt so clutch packs and ... I'm not sure of till I get time to Crack open

 

[Nige]

For a transmission there ought to be a plate right next to the control valve cover with the S/N & Arrgt Number on it. If not look for an area about 3" x 1" in the same general area as before that might have had 2 rivets in it at some time. If you can find it that's where the plate was.... hopefully under all the paint in that same area the S/N will be stamped on the transmission case. Best I can offer I'm afraid.

 

[kshansen]

Might be a long shot but if you can't find the number like Nige suggested maybe pull the cover off the transmission and see if there is a tag on the control valve? Might be able to get at least some ideas from NPR on SIS?

 

[HSV127]

Hi mkp613,


I'm Pretty sure the serial # tag is down the bottom near the output shaft and suction screen.

You can tell if it's an early one by the bearing on the front of the main shaft (under the round plate that the front trans mount is attached to), they had a single ball bearing and the later ones went to double taper roller bearings.

I had one that collapsed that front bearing and that damaged the oil feed to one of the 4th gear clutches burning it out.

Cheers
Robert