CAT 299d2 XHP Catalyst Reagent Failure - Easy way to replace DEF?

[Netherton Construction]

Thanks for letting me on the Forum!

I have a 2019 299D2 XHP. I'm not the primary operator on the machine so I don't know how long this has been going on. My main mulching operator isn't with me anymore.

I got in the machine the other day and the message "3516-11, Catalyst Reagent Other Failure Mode" came up on the screen. I hit the back arrow to go back to my main dash screen and the yellow warning symbol also goes away so my dash looks normal without any warnings when running.

This event has happened a few times (every time I got in the machine) in the last few weeks as I was in and out of the machine just moving pallets and doing chores around the yard. It seems to run and operate just fine except for the message that comes up every time I start it.

When it happened the first time I noticed that the machine was pretty low on DEF so I filled it with a jug I had in storage. I keep them in a closet in my house so it's climate controlled. The DEF jug has probably been in the closet about 6 months.

Is there an easy way to flush the DEF system? I read partial instructions about a KOEO purge procedure online somewhere but can't find it again.

I'm supposed to have this machine on a job Wednesday and CAT is closed today for the holiday so any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Nige]

Here's what your 3516-11 Event means in a bit more detail. Hopefully the TIER 4 experts will be along shortly to help you further.
Also attached the procedure for flushing the DEF Tank.
Oh, and post a Serial Number. It's always helpful when searching for information.

 

[mekanik]

Is there a chance the emissions are still covered by warranty? Flushing the tank should be the first step before replacing expensive components. DEF has a shelf life of six months.

 

[Nige]

Is there a chance the emissions are still covered by warranty?

Good point. I seem to recall emissions equipment warranty is 5 years/3k hours but I may be wrong.
Reading the OP it appears the issue is that he needs to get the machine up & running to go on a job before the Cat dealer opens up after the holidays.

 

[Netherton Construction]

Thanks SO much for your help and the attached info Nige.
Serial # is DX204789 and the machine has 800hrs
This is the first emissions/engine related problem I've had with the machine. It is out of warranty.

UPDATE:
I mulched with it for about 1.5hrs this morning to see if it had any function issues or if maybe the intermittent warning message would go away if I got it up to temp and maybe sloshed the DEF around in the tank. Well, it ran just great for the 1.5 hrs then lost power and I assume went into limp mode because the rpms wouldn't go over 1700ish and power to the tracks is just enough to crawl. I got it up to the shop, killed it, restarted and it acted normal so I let it idle for a few minutes. The Message for 3516-11 came back, it is limited to 1700ish rpm and the yellow "!" warning light stays flashing on the dash now even when I get out of the message. 3515-11 also shows now for the first time in my menu as an active yellow code.

Should I start with the flush procedure? How important is it to replace the filter when I do? If I have to go to CAT for parts should I get the manifold or sensor as well? I'm afraid to ask this publicly, but is it time to delete it?

I don't have a refractometer and I live about an hour from the closest CAT dealer. Most likely I'll have to order any parts and have them sent to a dropbox about 45 minutes away. Trying to balance everything with our need for the machine Wednesday. The whole job kinda depends on the Mulcher going in ahead of our other machines.

Thanks again for any help or input offered!

 

[Nige]

This is the first emissions/engine related problem I've had with the machine. It is out of warranty.

The machine may be out of warranty but AFAIK the TIER 4 emissions package has a much longer warranty than the machine. It's not an optional extended warranty that you have to buy, it comes with the machine. It's been discussed on HEF before but I will defer to the guys who are T4 experts to supply the fine details. If I can find any links I will post them.

 

[Netherton Construction]

I didn't see y'alls discussion about the warranty until I clicked "post." I'm not the original owner and just assumed it is out of warranty since that's what I was told when I bought it. It is a 2019. I bought it end of last year with 140hrs on it from the original owner. If there is hope for some kind of warranty remaining I would certainly look into it?

True story about needing it for our job starting Wednesday. We can only do so much though... I guess in the morning I can try to round up any parts I might need and hopefully be able to remedy in the afternoon... I'll ask about warranty on the emissions as well! Thanks Nige!

 

[Nige]

I didn't see y'alls discussion about the warranty until I clicked "post." I'm not the original owner and just assumed it is out of warranty since that's what I was told when I bought it. It is a 2019. I bought it end of last year with 140hrs on it from the original owner. If there is hope for some kind of warranty remaining I would certainly look into it?

I found something. You will need to go down a bit of a rabbit hole but the thread below has a link in it that goes to another thread which in turn has a link that goes to a 3rd thread. You should really read all the threads as there are useful snippets of information everywhere.

On Page 2 of the third thread is a direct quote from a member and owner of a 299D2 - "Cat service said if it's hard parts it would be covered under warranty for 5yrs and 3000 hrs". IMHO that 5yr/3k hours would be from the machine being new and would not simply apply to the original purchaser. Can't hurt to ask your dealer.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-272d-def-heater-removal.92810/

 

[heymccall]

Who would flush or drain the DEF tank before simply testing it? Refractometer is what I use.

 

[Netherton Construction]

Thanks for the help Nige. (And Mekanik too). Some of those threads I had seen, and some were new. That's actually the key-on-engine-off tidbit that I mentioned seeing earlier.

Can I just pull the "DEF return from injector" line and pump the DEF into approved container with Key-On-Engine-Off? I'd try that today if the weather allows. I'm afraid to dig into it much further today because you and that thread have me thinking it's under warranty. I don't want to void it if I may need costly parts. I'll make that call to CAT first thing in the morning.

 

[Netherton Construction]

I appreciate the input heymccall. I called every parts store in our nearby town and a local diesel mechanic looking for a refractometer. Can't find one. Amazon will take about a week to get here which I can't wait for. I'll probably order it anyway for next time though. Thanks!

 

[Tags]

Like others have said, I will echo, fairly certain your emissions warranty is good for 5 years. Original owner or not. Probably shouldn’t go fusing around with stuff until you speak with your Cat dealer to at least find out IF you still have warranty time left on it. You may be going down the wrong rabbit hole anyway, especially if you do drain the DEF and it still doesn’t run correctly, then what? You may be able to get a rental/loaner to get your job done.

 

[heymccall]

 

[Netherton Construction]

Thank Y'all!
CAT is sending a service truck out this afternoon with a DEF header and DEF injector. I'm paying travel expense but they said parts and labor IS still under the emissions warranty.
I'll post a result.

Sidenote: I ordered a refractometer and learned how to read the manufacture date on BlueDEF. Turnout the jugs in my closet were manufactured Jan 17, 2022. Hopefully that's not the problem!

 

[Nige]

I hope that you get a good result out of it.

One thing that has not been mentioned up to now is that apparently these TIER 4 Final engines do NOT like being "babied" at low and medium RPM. You need to run them pretty well flat out all the time (drive it like you stole it) so that the regens can function as intended. Another benefit is that the higher exhaust temperatures will require less forced regens, effectively the aftertreatment system will self-clean.

 

[Netherton Construction]

Thanks so much for the help and input! Y'all guided me to a solution through CAT. The Tech installed a new DEF header unit and it seems to be fixed. I haven't seen the bill, however the verbal agreement is that parts/labor will be covered under warranty. I had no idea before y'all mentioned it.

My DEF concentration was well within spec.

I hate running stuff wide open, but I keep hearing that I need to. I do understand why. At least my guys don't have any trouble doing it!

Thanks again for the guidance, it was a big help. Blessings!

 

[KSSS]

It doesn't necessarily need to be WOT all the time, but at least at 50% throttle the majority of the time (that is my own assessment of T4F). It helps to also work it harder when you have the opportunity. It is hard to retrain ourselves to do this since it flies in the face of everything you have done prior to T4F, but its the way things seem to be now. No retraining for employees who never seem to have an issue running things like this.

 

[John C.]

I think the issue is more load sensitive than speed sensitive. You do need more speed than low idle but you need plenty of load all the time to keep the firing pressures high and the furnace hot.

 

[Birken Vogt]

How does a telehandler stay hot I wonder? Lots of driving slowly and operating hydraulics. I use Bobcats the same way, for delicately maneuvering heavy objects. Not my problem, I just rent them.

 

[KSSS]

I think the issue is more load sensitive than speed sensitive. You do need more speed than low idle but you need plenty of load all the time to keep the firing pressures high and the furnace hot.

I agree that load is more favorable than is speed, but sometimes you can't load the machine, so speed is the next best solution and it seems to work.