CAT 279D-Is dealer lying about need to remove engine to clean DPF and clear ECM code

[Brent Davis]

Exasperating situation with my used (new to me) CAT 279D loader. At 2,600 hours it was running fine and suddenly started flashing an orange engine warning and went into reduced power mode. I am not a mechanic, so i had to take it to dealer. This is the notice I got from them: "we have looked at the codes that are active in the ECM and the DPF is in need of removing and cleaning....There is no way to remove the DPF without removing the engine and cooling package to gain access." Insanity... over a 30 hour job they say. At CAT hourly rates that is an insane expense. What can be done to safely remove the DPF and reprogram the computer. Who, anywhere close to Tennessee can do this professionally?

My friend that uses a lot of heavy equipment quipped that doing the cleaning is like going to a heroin dealer...you're just signing up for more of the same when the DPF messes up again. "Get it out and reprogram it", he said.

But how please.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Yes the engine has to be removed to do the job they say it can be done but removal of the engine is the easy and quick way.

You will not get any advice on removal of emissions equipment on this forum.

 

[92U 3406]

30 hours? That's wild. I've done just over a dozen and its never taken me much more than about 16 hours to R&R the DPF.

Cat procedure is to remove the engine. I always seemed to end up fighting to get the pump to spline back into the drive coupler, plus there always seems to be fluid spillage when pulling an engine. Time wise it seems to take me about the same removing engine vs going in from under the cab. I just absolutely detested screwing around with those pump bolts that have next to no access and are 10x harder to put back in than they were to take out.

I normally just remove a few lines/pipes on the dividing wall under the cab, disconnect the main harness plugs, loosen the main control valve bolts off a bit and slide the valve up an inch (holes are slotted) for clearance and then pull the dividing wall. Then you just chill on the pumps while unbolting the DPF. Its right there in front of you.

I believe the normal DPF cleaning interval is 3,000 hours, so you're not far off. What codes did it throw out?

 

[KSSS]

Thats why it is nice to avoid a DPF whenever possible. Some OEMs are able to get it done with just a DOC.

 

[Nige]

Is the warranty on the aftertreatment system still valid.?
IIRC it is 5 years or 3000 hours. Anything inside those numbers should be covered by Cat. You do NOT have to be the original owner from new for this warranty to apply.
See this thread......
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-272d-def-heater-removal.92810/

Post a Serial Number if you are unsure exactly what the Date of Manufacture of your machine is.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Tell’m to “go ahead”.. then, when their done, tell’m cat is paying the bill.. lol
A buddy took his Toyota in for service and they told him he needed new tires.. he said, ok go ahead..
When he went to pick it up, they threw a $2000.00 invoice at him..
He said what’s this for.?? They explained it was for the tires..
He said, send it to Dick.!! (Dick Dyer Toyota) When he bought his truck, they were doing a TIRES FOR LIFE campaign.. lol. they musta missed that when they were writing it up..
Naturally they ended up eating the tires and labor..

 

[Canuck Digger]

I feel for ya. Its unfortunate all the new equipment is "take it to the dealer" only. Once you buy a brand they got ya, so choose carefully. I just had to take my case TR270 with less than 1k hrs. in for an electrical issue in one of the joy sticks. $6k later she was fixed.! Most of my equipment I keep hanging on to the older stuff because it's servicable for a reasonable cost. All CTL's have their issues, but there are only two brands I'd consider purchasing and CAT isn't one of them .

 

[farmkid16_2002]

Cat diesel tech here
DPF can just be reset in CAT et in about 5 minutes. 3000 maintenance interval and I don't recall CAT paying for a "maintenance item". What I have done is just reset the interval if the machine is performing regens as requested and coming up to temperature. The kicker is too frequent regens. This machine using in cylinder dosing of diesel in the exhaust stroke to build heat so it WILL wash the cylinder walls down from wiping oil out of the cylinder.

It's a at your own risk thing. DPF can be removed from the fire wall side. Tech can r&I engine in 16 hours that's flat rate labor.
I challenge any mechanic to tell me the damn plastic drive coupler is not worn out loose and sloppy when we pull the engines out for DPF service!! So I look at pull engine, DPF service, replace drive coupler.

If too frequent DPF regens is ecm alerting operator it's out of it's programed counts for Regen by hours of use. check air filters and turbo for sucking oil into the intake. Seen a pile of dusted engines from customers not cleaning air filters and such.

Lmk what you find.

 

[Micah Downey]

I bought a 2018 299d2 at auction with 2600 hours on it and it was doing the same thing. Turned out to be the egr manifold needed replaced. It was under warranty. The only time in my life that anything I owned was covered under warranty. What year is your machine?

 

[The Peej]

Is Cat seriously saying at 3000 hour expect to pull the engine out for routine maintenance? That's crazy I'm sure no salesman is telling you that at time of purchase. Do any other brands require the engine to be removed to service the DPF? What's the expected cost per hour to run this machine?

 

[Mobiltech]

I guess these machines become a hot potato at 3000 hours ! Kinda like an electric car near the end of its battery life.
If it was in our area we would fix it once and live happily ever after.

 

[KSSS]

Is Cat seriously saying at 3000 hour expect to pull the engine out for routine maintenance? That's crazy I'm sure no salesman is telling you that at time of purchase. Do any other brands require the engine to be removed to service the DPF? What's the expected cost per hour to run this machine?

There are some that don't have a DPF. Its SCR and DOC only.

 

[Coaldust]

Brent,

Sorry to hear about the misfortune. Welcome to the HEF, BTW.

“My friend that uses a lot of heavy equipment quipped that doing the cleaning is like going to a heroin dealer...you're just signing up for more of the same when the DPF messes up again.”

I know what your buddy is saying. Knowwhatimsayin? Once you get on the smack, there’s no coming back. !

 

[ozarkag]

What is the actual code? The 3000 maintainece interval alone will not derate.
Just cause dealer sez service codes show it needs dpf replaced doesn't necessarily mean the underlying problem can't be fixed and dpf codes cleared.

 

[Ric.M]

That's crazy I'm sure no salesman is telling you that at time of purchase.

I guess that depends on the salesperson & dealer. I bought a 2020 299D3 from Ziegler Cat in MN a few months ago. Purchased online, sight-unseen (but lots of pics & support from the salesman).

Unit had 2400 hrs and salesman warned me that DPF service would be due at around 3,000hrs and that I should know that going into the sale. We talked it over and I asked him to quote having the service done then knowing I wouldn’t run the machine for another 3,000 hours so I wouldn’t have to deal with it again.

Not only was the quote considerably less than having the service done on the West Coast (where I live), he agreed to spilt the cost with me and had the Service Dept do a full service replacing all fluids and filters (incl hydraulic flush & fill) at no additional cost.

He sent me photos of the whole process - removing the engine, servicing DPF; even replaced a seal that was starting to leak & detailed the empty engine bay.

Dealer support really makes all the difference.

 

[KSSS]

Its good that they helped you out with that. You do realize though that there had to be a lot of money left on the deal for them to pickup half of a DPF replacement, and full fill and flush on everything. Good that they shared some of that with you, but there must have been a lot in the deal to allow for that much to be given back.

I will say that I bought a CASE 590 SN from Ziegler in Mn sight unseen several years ago, the backhoe was amazing (just as they said) and the deal was very seamless. They are very good to deal with.

 

[farmkid16_2002]

DPF cleaning is only $250 bucks around here in VA so as long as it's only dirty it can be cleaned. 95% of the time turbos failure causes oil entry and costs to catalyst and failure occurs.
Why I stress checking turbos and air filters!!