1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Cat 246 with blown engine, looking for parts and advice pls

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by dubbs1, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Hello,
    I just bought my first skid steer. A cat 246 with a blown Perkins 3034 engine. The oil pump failed. The previous owner tried to drive it back to his shop with the oil light on after the pump failed. It didn't make it! The crank is pretty bad, one rod journal in particular. The Turbo didn't survive either..

    I have been doing some googling and looking around on this motor and have heard that there might be a problem with oil galleries being too narrow and that they might be able to be machined to reduce oil pressure.

    Seems like a pretty expensive engine to find parts for also. I am hoping to find a used crank and used set of rods. Will prob buy a new oil pump. The block is still in really good shape. Hoping to just give it a quick ball hone and put a new set of rings in it. Obviously will get all new bearings and gasket set ect.

    One guy I was talking to has swapped the Mitsubishi 3.4 into a 246 from a 246 B or C.. This sounds like quite a bit of work with the intake and exhaust being on different sides, and mounts being different. Is there an engine that anyone knows of that swaps in to the 246 easily that is cheaper to buy than the Perkins engine?

    Would be great to get some leads on used parts or new parts even.. Fixing the engine is the option I want to go with mostly..

    Some info on the motor..
    The engine is a Perkins 3034 Turbo. (3.0L)
    Perkins engine part # 704.30
    Arrangement # 147-1234
    ESN# 3NW20365

    These engines came in Caterpillar 226, 228, 232, 236, 242, 246, 248, 252, 262

    Thanks!!
     
  2. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    i think they came in all the skiddies not just the wheel machines you have listed.

    is the crank to bad to have turned ? we have rebuilt a few of them just out of our own fleet and we did find used parts, i think the local cat dealer located them for us.

    we have had crans turned and undersized bearings put in at a lot more reasonable cost than a new crank and yes it is a very expensive little power mill to repair but if you really want a shocker price a reman or a new one from cat, if i remember right it was about $10k for a 216
     
  3. DoyleX

    DoyleX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Occupation:
    Lever Puller, Gear Jammer, Pipe Twister
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Try to find a burned or smashed one at salvage. Or like PJ said undersize the crank. Core value is 5K. If you google the history of that engine its made by PERKINS SHIBAURA ENGINES in china. Not a bad unit except for the oil pickup tube issue... The A models were the best made units.
     
  4. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Thanks for the replys!
    I thought the engine with the oil pickup tube problem was the smaller engine.. Can't remember the displacement 2.4 maybe? This oil pump cracked in half basicaly I'll try to post a pic of the crank and the oil pump. I should see if there is a machine shop that repairs cranks locally but kinda doubt it I tried to get a 2 stroke boat crank done a while back and nobody would touch it. I would ship it out if I have to though..

    Good to hear that the A models are the best made! Can't wait to get this thing goin!
     
  5. Lindsey97

    Lindsey97 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    oklahoma
    swap in a cummins 4BT.
     
  6. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Man that would be sweet, I looked into a little bit but didn't find anything on it. I wonder if it physically fits being a 3.9 litre vs the Perkins 3.0... Do you know if it's doable?
    Thanks for the reply.
     
  7. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Location:
    LaGrangeville, N.Y.
    I had the same thing happen with my 248 except #4 rod cracked the block. I bet that's your worst bearing too. I did some research and found this to be a common failure with this engine and complained to Cat. They helped me with engine replacement even though my machine was outside the warranty period. I had considered a different engine too, I was going to try a Cummins 4BT as they are super reliable and fairly inexpensive. It would have required a lot of adapting, but as I mentioned I ended up getting help from Cat for a rebuilt Perkins. You can read my experience here
     
  8. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Hey Steve thanks for the reply,
    That's great that Cat helped you out. I read the thread, too bad it was down for so long but still great that they helped you out. My machine has 4200 hrs on it. And I bought it blown up. I'm going to try to contact Cat today. I especially want to find out if there is a known problem with the size of the oil galleries causing too high of oil pressure and the failure of the oil pumps. I really doubt they will do anything for me but man that would be amazing if they did!
    I think my rod journal that is the worst is #4 as well. Luckily no damage to the block in my case. Just hoping the right person will see this thread and have a crank and rods laying around!
     
  9. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Pics

    P1010025.jpg P1010027.jpg
     
  10. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Location:
    LaGrangeville, N.Y.
    That looks like a similar point of failure to mine.
     
  11. mikeam1

    mikeam1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Ashland, MA
    I have the same problem with my 246. The oil pump broke the casting just as yours did and I spun all my main bearings. I bought a new surplus block from my local cat dealer for 1450.00 (thru cat used parts) and bought a good crank from Schaefer Enterprises for 750.00. The rings, seals, gaskets and bearings were another 1050.00 from cat. Cat also offers a rebuilt short block for 4500.00 with a core charge on 450.00 and a new short block0for 4950.00 with a 500.00 core charge. as long as your core is put back together and it will spin over regardless of the shape the bearings are in, they will accept it as a core. Good luck
     
  12. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    $750 for the crank is great compared to the $3200 Cat wants for it! I am in Canada where everything is more expensive.. I'll check out Schaefer. Thanks for the lead! What did you do about your turbo?
     
  13. mikeam1

    mikeam1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Ashland, MA
    Turbo is in great shape. I had to buy the timing cover from Schafer for 125.00. When my oil pump broke, it but a gouge on the machined surface that the pump rides on. total cost on all the parts was just under 3600.00 so I think I did pretty good. My Cat dealer gave me a price of 2284.66 for a new crank. part # 173-1280
     
  14. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    94
    Occupation:
    Greenskeeper/mechanic
    Location:
    Walden, NY
    I have a Cat 246.... Reading these engine threads scares me...does anyone know if the new oil pumps have been improved so they do not crack?This is a pretty big engine defect that is costing owners a ton of money to repair..i have 1800 ish hours on my machine, and I'd rather deal with this before I loose oil pressure than when I need an engine...
     
  15. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Yeah no kidding! I'm still trying to find out if the size of the oil galleries are a problem. Or maybe just the pump being a cheesy pot metal POS.. I guess if you lose oil press don't make the same mistake as others and seize er! Shut er down!
     
  16. chris allen

    chris allen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    georgia
    Hey guys, im very familiar with the cat branded skid steers with the perkins motors,,, I use to work for a cat dealor for few yrs an ive seen everything from a work out motor at only 2 hrs to one worn out at machines with only few hundred hrs or even round a thousand or so hrs, these motors are all produced by perkins an they all have cat serial number tags on them so therefore ya have to go threw cat to get repair parts. well few yrs ago I was laid off an I started working on equipment for myself, I then had a cat 252b brought to me that was flipped over an oil go on top of its pistons, they let it sit for hr then tried to start the motor up, was hard to turn over but it finally did an started smokeing an running crappy, I removed motor an took it apart an noticed that it had bent 2 rods an bent few valves. needless to say I looked an couldn't find parts an everybody said hade to go threw cat for parts. witch I knew that from get go due to I worked there an knew how hard to get the cataperkins parts. so I went threw cat for my parts an they were around 3500 bucks, very expensive at the time, but sense then ive done a few other cat skid steers with motor issues an ive done lite an major over hauls even bought new cranks an heads from a company an didn't even go to cat. did I mentioned an saved aloooottta money. I use a company down in Valdosta ga. there called Equipment Parts Supply,, I get all my engine kits there from them guys an they save me loads of money, I read over a few differ posts here an I saw were someone even asked if theres a motor that can inter change with the cataperkins motor, think someone mentioned a 4 bt cummins, but it want work due to its over all size is too big plus ya cant interchange motors that weren't attended for the cat due to the computer that's hooked to the machine, even tho the motor is mechanical its still tied into the ecm under the floor board. hope ive helped if need further help with the cat machines feel free to write me I have the cat software that cat dealors run for service,parts,updates an so on.
     
  17. dubbs1

    dubbs1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Bragg Creek
    Hey Chris thanks for the reply,
    I'll get hold of equipment parts supply and see what they have for used and new parts. So you have used their non OEM rebuild kits with good results hey. Good to know about the 4BT being physically too big. I think my best bet is just going to be waiting for the right deal to come along for a used crank and rods and go new for the rest. I'd rather keep it more or less stock.. Hey you wouldn't happen to have an emailable manual for that thing on file would ya?

    Thanks,
     
  18. chris allen

    chris allen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    georgia
    Hey Dubbs1,, well I have manuals an electrical an hydraulic schematics on ur machine,,,but theres not one on the motor,,but I do have the cat software on my laptop that will tell you anything you wanta know, so if ya need any torque specs or anything don't think twice on asking or I can try an print something off for ya an email it to ya or mail it to ya. but my manuals I have cover troubleshooting machine,testing an adjustings,, mainly everything but internal motor info. but like ive said ive built 2 cataperkins with the aftermarket parts an saved a crap load of money too, them boys are still running strong today still. basicly all you need to do is if ur crank is bad ,clean it up an get the casting number off of it, an same thing for ur pistons an rod, then call them guys at Equipment Parts Supply an ask for a guy named Stacey Rewis an he ll hooook you up an tell em I sent you to him. AN SAVE THERE NUMBER,, never know what tears up tommorrow