Cat 140m2 park break issue

[Mrigger]

I am running a 140m2 AWD and was just wondering has anyone applied the park break while still in gear??
If I do it the grader jumps really bad and if I'm in a higher gear the grader will actually stall out. I realize the grader should be In neutral before I put it in park but sometimes I'm not thinking about that. This problem is really starting to make me angry as it can't be good for the machine. I have heard that the older m series graders will go into park without this jumping and then warning lights will come on reminding you that your not in neutral. In my mind it the clutch is fully disengaged then there should be no reason for this sudden and dangerous lurch when applying the park break.
Any input would be appreciated as I would like to know if the original m series dose it or if this problem exists with other machines or if this is an isolated problem that I can get the cat tech to look at
I just think that if this is an issue with just the M2 in general then cat should try to come up with a fix.

 

[oldtom]

Mrigger it is a park brake stop machine put blade on the ground and SET (brake)

 

[Gavin84w]

QUOTE I realize the grader should be In neutral before I put it in park but sometimes I'm not thinking about that.QUOTE I would suggest you start thinking about it.

QUOTE. This problem is really starting to make me angry as it can't be good for the machine.QUOTE Sounds like you are the sole purpose the problem is there in the first place from your previous comments.

QUOTE Any input would be appreciated as I would like to know if the original m series dose it or if this problem exists with other machines or if this is an isolated problem that I can get the cat tech to look at QUOTE Read the operation manual and apply the brake like it says, will save you the bill of the cat tech along with the embarresment of not knowing how to correctly set the park brake.

I just think that if this is an issue with just the M2 in general then cat should try to come up with a fix. See above in bold, fix your own habit of applying brake incorrectly and all will be a lot better i am sure.

 

[mitch504]

I've never run an M, but it does seem strange to me that with the machine stopped and the clutch disengaged, applying the parking brake would cause this.

 

[Nige]

I've never run an M, but it does seem strange to me that with the machine stopped and the clutch disengaged, applying the parking brake would cause this.

We have M-series and I have NEVER seen a machine do that if you apply the park brake when in neutral with the machine stopped.

I read this once yesterday and was on the point of making a comment, but didn't - however I will make it now. There is a sensor in the operator seat that detects the operator, a bit like a seat belt warning light on your car or pickup but in this case it's linked to the park brake/transmission. Lift your ass the slightest bit off the seat and the park brake WILL apply and the transmission will neutralize. We had trouble early on with park brakes applying when the machine was moving when one of our lighter operators was in the seat but figured it out in the end.

 

[Mrigger]

I guess I should be have been a little clearer! if the machine is at a dead stop with the clutch fully pressed down and the blade on the ground with no possible machine movement then why if its not in neutral would the machine jump if the park break is applied. It would be non unlike driving a tandem truck if I'm in gear with the truck and stopped with my foot pushing the clutch all the way down and my other foot holding the break And then hitting the air break the break just comes on and the truck doesn't jump. If I am in the operators seat and I have my foot on the clutch and I then stand up with it in gear and the park break aromatically applies itself cuz of the dead man switch in the seat the machine will not jump. Cat has really been sh@$ting the bed with the new equipment that they are coming out with. 300 hrs on the machine and its been broke down for half the season so far I will take my old 140H any day of the week over the POS that sits in front of me that is broke down again as I type this. I wish they had got me a deer at this point

 

[Nige]

When you say "clutch" I assume you're referring to the inching pedal, correct..?

I think what you're experiencing when you hit the park brake before putting the transmission in neutral is the clutches disengaging when the output side of the transmission is locked solid by the park brake. The comparison you made with a tandem truck is not valid because if the transmission on the 140M is in any gear there will be at least 3 clutches engaged and when you shift to neutral you are disengaging them. That could easily release some stored energy from somewhere. On the other hand it could be something specific on the machine you're operating that the inching pedal is not fully disengaging the transmission. Maybe that needs checking.

As others have posted here, my advice would be to get into the habit of putting the tranny into neutral before applying the park brake. That's how the manual says it should be done. I'm going to have a play with a couple of our 16M's tomorrow doing exactly what you say makes your 140M jump and I'll report back on what I find.

 

[Gavin84w]

Have you had the dealer put all the latest flash files in it? i would definently be getting that looked at if i was you.

 

[robin yates uk]

When you say "clutch" I assume you're referring to the inching pedal, correct..?

I think what you're experiencing when you hit the park brake before putting the transmission in neutral is the clutches disengaging when the output side of the transmission is locked solid by the park brake. The comparison you made with a tandem truck is not valid because if the transmission on the 140M is in any gear there will be at least 3 clutches engaged and when you shift to neutral you are disengaging them. That could easily release some stored energy from somewhere. On the other hand it could be something specific on the machine you're operating that the inching pedal is not fully disengaging the transmission. Maybe that needs checking.

As others have posted here, my advice would be to get into the habit of putting the tranny into neutral before applying the park brake. That's how the manual says it should be done. I'm going to have a play with a couple of our 16M's tomorrow doing exactly what you say makes your 140M jump and I'll report back on what I find.

it never ceases to amaze me supposedly intelligent human beings either fail to follow manual instructions or never bother to read it.
So many are guilty of this, from learner drivers to those with no excuses at all

 

[Nige]

A Service Magazine has just been published for new software for M-Series graders. One of the "new & improved" parameters is the following: -

All M Series Models except 24M - Improvement to the inching pedal logic to remove the sequence that could result in a small wheel movement when the inching pedal is depressed and the transmission is shifted to NEUTRAL.

Suggest you have a word on your dealer and get the software upgraded.

BTW I tried 3 different 16M graders and could not reproduce the fault you are describing. However a 16M is a different animal to a 140M AWD.