Case 580k 4x4 gear ratio issue?

[joe the plumber]

So when I first got this machine I could cruse around the yard in first gear .
After a year first gears gear ratio started to shorten and I had to rely on
Second gear to get around and use first for power situations. Now second gear is starting to deteriorate?
When I got this machine I did all fluid changes and new screen!
Can Anyone tell me what is happening?
1987 case 580k 4x4 4 speed shifter on the floor.

 

[Dirtdauber]

I would guess slippage of the forward clutch pack in the shuttle or possibly the torque converter.
Doubt it's in the main transmission.

 

[Willie B]

I'd guess you need a torque converter. My first 580K was a serious problem when hot. I now have one with great pushing power, but it leaked from the torque converter. I had the dealer install a new seal. It cost $1200. These machines are very sensitive to fluid levels in the torque converter. Your solenoid valve controlled by buttons in the loader handle, or transmission lever may be malfunctioning.

 

[joe the plumber]

Willie its funny you say that about the fluid level.
After having the machine for a year i decided it would be good to change all the fluids.
Right thing to do kind of thing!
Well i dropped the pan on the shuttle and changed the pick up screen new gasket.
When i filled it back up i over filled it? Noticed it right away and brought it down to the correct level.
What is the purpose of the button on the loader handle ??
I pushed it once and seemed to lock the rear tires so they spun together and proceeded to tear my grass up?
Transmission leveler???
Thanks for the reply Willie sounds like you know what your talking about!
Also do you think the damage is down and just a matter of time before it doesn't move at all?

Thanks Joe

 

[melben]

what does it act like backing up in the same gear?

 

[Willie B]

The button on loader handle, and shift lever both serve the same purpose. Like a clutch they decouple the transmission from the engine. They control an electric valve on the side of the torque converter stopping oil flow to it. It's nice to be able to use the throttle lifting or dumping without the tractor trying to overpower the brake. If it doesn't work, it isn't an expensive fix.

Whole torque converters is a component most of these tractors get replaced. With labor I'd expect $2000. I've seen aftermarket torque converters in the $400 range.

 

[bob_00]

hey joe those were notorious for foward shuttle faliure please tell us is it do the same in revers like melben ask and willie this 580k shifter tru the floor its a 580k phase one machine the clutch cut out circuit oparete in the shuttle box not on the converter by disangaging the clutch pack in the shullte belive it or non mine was weak in foward but full power in revers this was wath a fount in the foward clutch pack of the shuttle

 

[melben]

C-d- and early K, lever thru floor all used the same Borg Warner shuttle. All subject to the same bellville washer failure. Typically reverse will be fine but if stacking of broken parts happens it can lock till it drives in neutral and locks up in reverse. Either type dumps clutch pressure not TC pressure to stop motion with button.
Mel

 

[joe the plumber]

580k

C-d- and early K, lever thru floor all used the same Borg Warner shuttle. All subject to the same bellville washer failure. Typically reverse will be fine but if stacking of broken parts happens it can lock till it drives in neutral and locks up in reverse. Either type dumps clutch pressure not TC pressure to stop motion with button.
Mel

Hi Melben,
Its been a while since i have been in the machine it has been winterized for two months.
If i remember correctly it acted the same way in reverse high revving without much power.
Shiftier is through the floor 4 speed
Joe

 

[joe the plumber]

Can this shuttle be rebuilt??

 

[Dirtdauber]

Absolutely, if you've ever done anything like this it's a piece of cake.
Good place to buy your parts. http://e-backhoeparts.com/

 

[melben]

The shuttle oil should be checked engine idling, 4th gear, forward shuttle, brakes locked or secured so it cannot move. This will insure that the TC is full. If the system was drained it will have to be run, checked, the refilled till the level stabilizes. Filling it as I described will allow a proper check without the oil splash because the driveline will be locked. I have had units that worked as you described and it was simply low on oil, I assume that you have checked this but don't hurt to ask.

If the stall speed is the same in F&R then the problem is probably not associated with the clutches, the TC could well be the fault, converters can fail different ways, I have had several that the sprags failed and it gave extremely low stall rpms and other failures can get high rpms. I did not read whether you did a stall test or not, if you did is there a drastic difference between the stall rpms in forward and reverse?

 

[joe the plumber]

I have checked the oil but not as you explained .I would use the machine for a while till it was warm then put the machine in neutral on level ground
then check it with the machine running. I will try your meth-ed in the spring.

I did not try a stall test?? How would i go about a stall test?

Would a stall test be killing the machine in a roll then see if the machine rolls better not running?

Just seems something is holding the machine back like the brakes are frozen its worse in the lower gears.

It doesn't feel like it is slipping though the rpms are consistent no spiking of the rpms or anything.

 

[Willie B]

Mine would leak a tiny bit until it got hot. When it got hot it would leak profusely. I have a theory that everywhere two pieces of metal touch they will leak. If they don't leak, they are out of oil. When it began to slip, I would add a pint, it'd be fine again. I could load a truck, or 5 with little leakage, Screening a pile of gravel, it'd be almost a stream. The difference between full, and not working is very little oil.

 

[joe the plumber]

So I stopped at a case dealer and was talking to the head mechanic
Manager .
He asked the same question! How does it act in reverse!
He said most likely it's the cluch plates in the shuttle.
So he recommended rebuilt complete shuttle with a torque converter!
That's is 3500.00 +1000 core fee .
I think this is the way I'm going to go come spring my machine is very
Valuable to me between getting firewood , digging stumps and moving stones.

He also suggested replacing the front pump that pumps fluid through the shuttle

Joe

 

[Dirtdauber]

The front pump is part of the shuttle and NOT a totally separate part.