Case 580C brakes

[Kefrko]

Hello everyone. First post on this site although it has helped me just reading threads in the past. I don’t have much experience with tractor/loader/backhoes but I have a new to me Case 580C. One of the issues it had when I picked it up was no brakes. I decided to start looking at it today and pulled the plugs on the top of both master cylinders. The right brake had some fluid in it. The left was bone dry. Both pedals go to the floor with no resistance. I’m trying to figure out my next step. I figured I would add some fluid to the left side and maybe try to get some eyes on the slave cylinders/ look for obvious leaks etc but if it would make
More sense to replace the master cylinders and slave cylinders, I can do that too. Any advice would be appreciated. I think I have read there are some snowballing issues that can be found when dealing with the brakes. I think it had to deal with seals
Thanks

 

[nova481]

Hi and welcome

Probably the first thing to check are the brake housing seal and o-ring (part no. A39273 and G10347) and go from there. New brakes like to be oil free.

 

[Kefrko]

Thanks. Would you recommend pulling the floor plate to be able to work from above? I’ve read that can be helpful but also a lot to go through to get it off.

 

[franklin2]

I believe your tractor is much like my 480C. The brake fluid side is much like a car, with the master, a fluid line, and a slave. It just has separate systems left and right.

It's a real pain, but pulling the floor would make it much easier to work on. I left my floor out and used the backhoe for a couple of years like that, till I was confident I had it working. I just put it back in the other day but I took a torch and cut it in two pieces to make it easier to get out.

Once you get the floor out, you can see what's going on. You can see the slaves, and when you put fluid in the master cylinders, you can see where it's leaking. The slaves are not that expensive, if you do not want to mess around with it like I did you can just put new ones on. And then they have to be bled, just putting fluid in the master usually will not give you any brakes since there is still air in the system.

Once you get some brakes, you can also lube and free up all the pivot points and free up the parking brake system.

See what you have after you do all the above. Hopefully you will not have to pull the brake housings off.

 

[Kefrko]

Thanks. I’ll see what it takes to get the floor up. What are you guys using for fluid? I thought I saw Dot3 somewhere but then I feel like I saw someone mention a different fluid in the comment section of a video I was watching.

 

[nova481]

 

[franklin2]

Just use the same brake fluid as you put in your vehicles. You should be able to find the bleeders on the slave cylinders. Hopefully they are not stuck. If you think you might break them off, use a propane torch and heat them up really good and then see if they break loose.

This is the easiest piece of machinery I have had to bleed the brakes when you have the floor out. You put fluid in the master, open the bleeder with one hand while you push the brake pedal with the other hand.

 

[hseII]

Hello everyone. First post on this site although it has helped me just reading threads in the past. I don’t have much experience with tractor/loader/backhoes but I have a new to me Case 580C. One of the issues it had when I picked it up was no brakes. I decided to start looking at it today and pulled the plugs on the top of both master cylinders. The right brake had some fluid in it. The left was bone dry. Both pedals go to the floor with no resistance. I’m trying to figure out my next step. I figured I would add some fluid to the left side and maybe try to get some eyes on the slave cylinders/ look for obvious leaks etc but if it would make
More sense to replace the master cylinders and slave cylinders, I can do that too. Any advice would be appreciated. I think I have read there are some snowballing issues that can be found when dealing with the brakes. I think it had to deal with seals
Thanks

Get used to using the bucket to stop would be my 1st recommendation.

My grandfather had (2) in his grading business during my formative years.


My youngest uncle’s first “think fast” moment for my 5 year old self was for him to jump out of the seat and leave me to stop the 580C.


2 years later my eldest uncle allowed my 7 year old self prove to me that I could in fact not operate the other 580C nearly as well as he did loading spreader trucks.

Considering he is my senior by by 24 years, & has always been the absolute smoothest on any piece of equipment he’s ever climbed on or ever been around,( I can attest to that even more-so being a Construction Superintendent now& having been working out in the “real world” for the last 20 years), I wouldn’t exactly contend that to be a fair comparison.

Seriously though, until J.I. went to “wet brakes” on the later series machines, you’ll only have brakes for a minutes with Full new brake job.

 

[Kefrko]

Hey guys thanks for your input thus far. I pulled both brake housings off. The left side seemed dry. The right side definitely has a leaky seal. I had a hard time figuring where the pedal was in the cab to lock the differential and then I realized why. The linkage was either cut or sheared off right where it enters the brake housing previous to my ownership. I would assume that’s a nice feature and wondering how hard it would be to find a replacement linkage. The other issue I’m having is freeing up the flexible brake on the left side from the hard line. It looks like the flexible lines are available but the hard lines I can’t find so far. I figure I could get some lines and bend them myself if need be. Or just cut it back a little and reflare it with a new fitting. Obviously I will need to replace the seal on the right side just wondering if it would make sense to do the left side since it’s open. Broken tractor has a nice set with seals, brakes, lines, slaves, masters etc. It’s $915 which I could get just not sure if all of that needs to be replaced. I guess if I did go that route I would be starting with all new parts and not chasing an issue down the road.

 

[Tinkerer]

It is common to disable differential locks to prevent damage to the differential when it engaged and the tractor is turned on hard surface.

 

[hseII]

Hey guys thanks for your input thus far. I pulled both brake housings off. The left side seemed dry. The right side definitely has a leaky seal. I had a hard time figuring where the pedal was in the cab to lock the differential and then I realized why. The linkage was either cut or sheared off right where it enters the brake housing previous to my ownership. I would assume that’s a nice feature and wondering how hard it would be to find a replacement linkage. The other issue I’m having is freeing up the flexible brake on the left side from the hard line. It looks like the flexible lines are available but the hard lines I can’t find so far. I figure I could get some lines and bend them myself if need be. Or just cut it back a little and reflare it with a new fitting. Obviously I will need to replace the seal on the right side just wondering if it would make sense to do the left side since it’s open. Broken tractor has a nice set with seals, brakes, lines, slaves, masters etc. It’s $915 which I could get just not sure if all of that needs to be replaced. I guess if I did go that route I would be starting with all new parts and not chasing an issue down the road.

I wish you good fortune.

I hope my post did not come off as being smart or condescending, it was just how my family addressed this issue on these machines.

That was always the running joke on their jobs or when we were using these machines.

 

[Birdseye]

As mentioned, taking out the seat and the floor is a big pain but the good part is that you now have access to fix so many things:
- brakes slave cylinders, bleeding
- ebrake, cable, linkage, adjustments
- wiring and contact switches for lots of things
- the floor itself if it’s rusted

I changed the wiring so that the horn button in the cab turns on the backup horn which is much louder than my regular horn which is almost dead.

 

[Kefrko]

As mentioned, taking out the seat and the floor is a big pain but the good part is that you now have access to fix so many things:
- brakes slave cylinders, bleeding
- ebrake, cable, linkage, adjustments
- wiring and contact switches for lots of things
- the floor itself if it’s rusted

I changed the wiring so that the horn button in the cab turns on the backup horn which is much louder than my regular horn which is almost dead.

Thanks. I did end up pulling the floor. It actually wasn’t too bad. I decided to start removing the brake plate while I wait for some parts to be delivered. Glad I did because that screw that holds them on is a bear. I may try some heat to break it loose. The right side one got a little chewed up from the screw driver I was trying to use. I tried to drill it and use an easy out but that didn’t work too well either. I ordered what I’m hoping is a large screw driver impact attachment. The description has the blade 5/8” long and the thickness at 3/32. Hoping that will fit the left side better. The right side housing had two bolts up top and two studs at the bottom. The left side has only one stud at the bottom. I thought from the videos I’ve been watching there should only be one stud. I may hit them with some heat and try to remove them as well. I’m thinking the brake plate will come off a little easier if they weren’t in the way. They look to be a little seized on there.

 

[Birdseye]

Even with the floor out of the way, working on the brakes for me at least wasn’t easy. Everything is upside down and backwards and you have to reach down for everything so you’re either standing outside and leaning into the cab or sitting on a board in the cab and reaching down to the axle area.

Bolts on the slave cylinders and brake linkages are hard to see and encrusted w crud, once you do see the bolt, the space for a wrench is tiny. It’s the kind of job that is so slow the first time around but much easier with a little experience.

I’d suggest you clean and de-crud the area as much as you possibly can, it made it easily for me.

A previous commenter said he left the floor out for two years after he finished the repairs, just to make sure everything was working correctly. I totally understand that.

 

[CASE1234]

do you know if your brakes are the same on a model D or not. thanks

 

[stinky64]

Don't know if you've got the parts manual, but if you do consult page 148 for the transaxle parts. Direct your attention to part #20 A146027, it is a small seal that lives inside the R.S. side gear #18 to seal the cross shaft #15 that runs thru for the diff lock assy. Is quite possible that may be the source of the right side leak and should be changed before ruining new components.

 

[franklin2]

You can take a propane torch and heat the flare nut really well and then try to get it loose.

On the transaxle oil seals, be careful with this. There are a couple of threads on here where they talk about replacing them. I did not have to replace mine, but remember reading most importantly, if you are replacing them only do one side at a time. If you do both sides at the same time, something gets out of wack and its difficult to get back together. Do not remember any of the details, but it's in a thread in here somewhere.

Once you get your oil leak fixed, the hydraulic parts of the brakes are no different than a car or truck. The brake puck itself is a little weird. The brake band grabs the outside of the puck and stops it, but the center spline keeps turning the guts of the puck and it has little balls with ramps that expand the sides of the puck and it drags on the transaxle housing and the large cover you took off.

 

[Kefrko]

do you know if your brakes are the same on a model D or not. thanks

I’m not sure about the D but I feel like they might be the same as the B.

 

[Kefrko]

Don't know if you've got the parts manual, but if you do consult page 148 for the transaxle parts. Direct your attention to part #20 A146027, it is a small seal that lives inside the R.S. side gear #18 to seal the cross shaft #15 that runs thru for the diff lock assy. Is quite possible that may be the source of the right side leak and should be changed before ruining new components.

Thanks. I just ordered that #20 seal from broken tractor and I’m hoping to use a ground down 90° pick to pull it out without opening up the differential. I also found a good online source for some brake packs that came with the backing plate oil seals, o-rings, brake bands, master and slave cylinders, flexible brake lines and today I pulled the old brake lines and ran new 1/4” NiCopp brake lines. I also measured and ordered some springs for the adjusters even tho from what I’ve read, I shouldnt expect too much out of the adjusters. Still having trouble getting the large slotted screw out of the backing plate. I’m going to hit them with a torch next and if that doesn’t work possibly weld a nut to its face so I can use a socket to hopefully break it loose. The flat head screw driver attachment that fit on an impact gun that I ordered sheared half of the screw face off on the left side so that didn’t work as well as I had hoped.

 

[stinky64]

If the picks don't work, you can try a thin drywall screw to pierce the seal and pull it out with pliers. The fine thread screws are a smaller diameter and make the task a little easier. Make sure when you're reinstalling to drive the seal in straight as possible, they're not that beefy and will distort easily. Good Luck.