Case 580 Shuttle Drive Problem (Long Read)

[JedCase580SE]

It looks OK - you just had to be certain the regulating valve was free to move & spring was OK.
I've marked areas of the valve body which wear due to contamination in the oil - be certain that the corresponding work area inside the shuttle housing is not worn too much.
The wear in the housing allows pressure to escape.

Have you double checked the seals for the fwd piston? Not damaged?

Do you know what size it should be inside the housing? Or how much wear is too much?

 

[alrman]

The housing only wears in the corresponding work area I marked on the control valve.
You will see a wear mark inside the housing.
It should only be a visible wear mark - if it is grooved beyond say .020" the housing needs repairs or replacement.

Repairing it requires re-boring the housing - fabricating a sleeve, with correct porting holes - pressing the sleeve into the housing - pegging it into location to prevent turning & fitting a new control valve.

Sorry if this seems overwhelming, without actually seeing the shuttle, I can only advise what I have had to do to them over many years of repairing.

It's all about controlling any pressure loss.

 

[JedCase580SE]

The housing only wears in the corresponding work area I marked on the control valve.
You will see a wear mark inside the housing.
It should only be a visible wear mark - if it is grooved beyond say .020" the housing needs repairs or replacement.

Repairing it requires re-boring the housing - fabricating a sleeve, with correct porting holes - pressing the sleeve into the housing - pegging it into location to prevent turning & fitting a new control valve.

Sorry if this seems overwhelming, without actually seeing the shuttle, I can only advise what I have had to do to them over many years of repairing.

It's all about controlling any pressure loss.

Do the Control Valves wear out also or is it normally in the Housing?

 

[JedCase580SE]

I don’t see any noticeable wear but the Control Valve does feel like it has some slop in the housing before you put it completely in place.

So what should I do next?? Do I need to get a new Charging Pump? Or a Torque Converter?
Should I pull the clutches out again?
The last time I had 90-140 psi but no changes from Neutral to Forward or Reverse.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have measured the Control Valve and the Housing. The difference is only about 0.004-0.005. I would think this should be acceptable?

 

[Swampfoxo]

I got a Case 580SE Backhoe a few months ago. It had almost no forward drive but reverse seemed fine. I did the pressure gauge checks in the manual and found the forward clutch pressure to be lower then reverse and figured that the forward clutch discs were probably shot. (Bad choice)
I removed the shuttle, disassembled it and found the discs did not look very bad but since I had bought the full rebuilt kit I redid everything. I was hoping the discs were bad enough that they were the problem.
Now I have it all back together and running and still no forward.
I am going to put the gauge back on it and see if the results are any different. What else should I do?? I have already decided I am probably going to have to pull the shuttle again and see if there is something that I missed. I hate doing this again but I think it has to be something in the shuttle.

Also, there are no wires on the solenoid cutout so I figured it’s not the problem.
Any ideas will be great.
Thanks

 

[Swampfoxo]

I'm new to this but I pulled my shuttle had no power in forward. I replaced the reverse clutches waiting on forward disc. I put air pressure in the hole closing off back hole the aluminum center pushes clutch plates together giving u drive. My was hanging up somewhat so i sprayed it with lube oil though hole and worked it with air then put carb cleaner in it. Used air to work unit. Then after a while it was reliable. I have a problem . On the back . Forward side opposite the stem . I cant remember the configuration of the thrust and bearing. After I slide on the clutch housing I put a ring with teeth to match shaft then 2 ring clips 1 inside 1 outside. Then I think the thrust washer thin bearing and another thrust washer

 

[alrman]

Jed, I think all the answers for your problem are contained within this thread.

There is no doubt something is wrong with your shuttle, but our ability to help you is limited to the constraints of the internet.
Just about every possible cause for your problem has been brought to your attention.
You probably need to dismantle the entire shuttle & look closely at each item of discussion.
If there is something beyond what you can see or figure, you need to take the shuttle to someone who has the experience to figure this out for you.

Generally, I replace the converter with an exchange unit on each repair I do, it's part of providing a warranty for my work.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I will pull it the rest of the way apart and look it all over again. I am thinking I might get a new (rebuilt) Torque Converter and maybe a new Charging Pump. I have to wonder if maybe I have the pressure required but somehow maybe not enough volume. I hate to throw parts at it but I am running out of tricks.

I have called a few people and they are saying I have to bring the backhoe to them which will be expensive to transport and then it could be a couple of thousand to fix on top of the transport costs.

 

[franklin2]

All this being said, I have done something wrong or missed something. When I started this I had reverse but very little forward and now I have no forward or reverse!

This is logical thinking. It happens to me all the time. I am constantly aware of what something did before I messed with it, and what it does afterward. Assembly mistakes and faulty new parts are my common faults. Sad to say sometimes we can't make up for an experienced eye. I wonder if you could beat the bushes some more, looking for someone who would work with you that you could bring it to and help you put it back together. This would be a word of mouth thing, a Case guy who has his own shop now or something like that.

 

[Swampfoxo]

Is it possible to clean a torque converter in the machine by filling torque tube with something and cranking it letting it circilate

 

[melben]

Is it possible to clean a torque converter in the machine by filling torque tube with something and cranking it letting it circilate

Transmission repair shops have a special fixture that flushes the oil that they put the converter on. Make sure the area on the stub drive for the system pump is not worn crooked, if so the pump will be worn as well and both should be replaced.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have ordered a new charging pump and a rebuilt torque converter. I have gone thru everything and spent a lot of time cleaning and deburring the spool in the Control Valve. Hopefully everything will be working properly in a few days.

 

[Swampfoxo]

Transmission repair shops have a special fixture that flushes the oil that they put the converter on. Make sure the area on the stub drive for the system pump is not worn crooked, if so the pump will be worn as well and both should be replaced.

I didnt split the tractor except at the shuttle. I replaced shuttle once . I gotta redo it . The original I'm redoing. Only the disc. It had no power. I found some disc abrasive gone here and there.i changed the disc and using air I'm flossing it with brake cleaner and pb blaster.im getting a smutty looking residue out of it. I believe it coming from the piston. It does move good with 120 lbs air but I think I'll get more pressure with oil. Psi I think is higher. I'm trying to figure this out. I'm learning alot. However I'm on the downhill side of the learning on these machines they on their way out. .

 

[melben]

Can u post pictures?

 

[melben]

Swampfoxo I wish you had started a new thread with your problem, when you started, you confused me greatly as we were dealing with a Borg reverser, no resemblance to the Rockford or twin Disc used in earlier machines. Guess I am getting old but it took me some time to shift gears. The converter is a bolt together unit on units like yours and easily serviceable once removed.

 

[JedCase580SE]

Was hoping to be posting results of the new Charging Pump and the Rebuilt Torque Converter additions but when I pulled the torque converter housing I found almost all of the mounting bolts were loose, stripped or missing. I ordered new 10mm bolts and helicoils. Hopefully things will be getting closer to a usable machine next week!
3 steps forward and 1 back! Someday I will get to rebuilding the swing cylinders!

 

[JedCase580SE]

Woo Whoo!! I have good forward and reverse!!

When I removed the torque converter I found that it was replaced previously but they had not aligned it and the center stub shaft was very badly worn on one side. This also presented issues in the charging pump since the converter was not running true.

Rebuilt the shuttle, de-burred the spool valve in the control valve, new charging pump and a rebuilt torque converter and all good now.

Thanks for everyone's help with this!!

Now on to the Swing Cylinders!

 

[alrman]

That's great news!
I bet there was a dance party going on in the workshop after the moment of truth!

 

[JedCase580SE]

Yep!! Lots to celebrate! I took way too long to get to this point.

Still to do:

1) Reseal Swing Cylinders
2) Fix steering column leak
3) Replace Serpentine belt
4) Change all fluids & filters