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Cascadescaper need help!

Bob Horrell

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
424
Location
Acton, CA
Occupation
Owner/Operator grading business
If you can have a ramp at one end, why not dig it with your S185. Out here in California we dig most pools with a bobcat in one day and they average 110 to 140 yds of material. Of course there is always the rocky son of a gun that comes up every now and then and those can't be dug with a mini excavator anyway.
 

tylermckee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
768
Location
washington
I would just have a rental yard drop off a 120. should take you no more than a day, more like a couple hours.
 

nedly05

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,801
Location
Adk. Mtns, NY
I would definitly have a larger machine dropped off, you can do it with a 3 ton machine, but it would be faster easier and make you look better if you had a bigger rig there, I would go no smaller than an 8 ton. IMO. GOOD LUCK.:thumbsup
 

steven101

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
11
Location
midwest
Sorry guys for not responding, my dog was hit by a car.
So I had to spend most of my day at a vet.
I guess theirs fluid leaking from his heart,so its to early to tell.
So now, Im going to spend a good day at the vet again.
Thank you all for responding so quickly:cool:
You all have made excellant points. As for the job, Im going to submit a proposal on wensday or early morning thursday. I will call tomrrow and find out how much it will cost to rent a larger one,or stick with the original plan.
One last thing, the contractor said that the spoil just needs to be moved out of the way. So its not going to be moved to far.
He also wants a bid to haul it out,but will see.
Again, I just want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion and
Heavy equipment forum.
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
this job, and how to do it seams trivial after you dog got hit by a car, sorry to hear that.



all of you people's pricing structure is way out from where i'm at....typically, in my area, i never have to mobe more than 4 miles...around here, i consider that to be about $250.00....and $250 back out....81 yds i could pitch out with the 210 in less than an hour, 544g deere loader to stack if need be, mobe in, mobe out, hrs. rent....another $350. would run the guy 1600 tops,

Dayexco, every one said about $1500 and one day for this job, with the correct machine. Steven is trying to use a very small machine so it with take him much longer and that's main reason for this thread. Job is to small IMO to rent a 120 for but to big for a 3700 lb mini excavator.
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
Dayexco, that would mean that he could get it done in 4 to 5 hours, thats pretty fast.

jmac, not really. with a 45k lb hoe, if an operator can't cycle a min. of 3 times in a min. at 5' depth, he's not much of an operator. those mini's should cycle as fast or faster. those calculations i posted were with an assumed bucket capacity of 1/8th of a yard. it sounds as though he's just hogging out a hole 5' deep 21' square, and that making trim passes, having a grade checker in the bottom isn't an issue here. i think that production rate i posted was very accurate as to what i'd expect out of that machine at that depth, in those conditions with an average operator.
 

Tommjr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
48
Location
Hudson, WI
What about the Fluff?

I get 81 cubic yards + the 25% fluff.

I have a VIO 50 w/ 30" sand bucket, that would be the machine I would use.

I agree with the rest of the guys, you do need a larger excavator.
 

xkvator

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
258
Location
pa.
jus' thinkin'...the 323 has a max dig depth of 90''...so there's not gonna be much digging power/reach at 5'...
JMO...but it might be easier to dig it in 2 1/2' layers...
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
Maybe your correct dayexco, but for me it always takes longer and costs more than I plan. That being said, I had a 331 made by bobcat twice the weight of the 323 ( the 323 weighs less than 2 tons from what xkvator said)and I would of planned on two days. I will bet you a chicken dinner that it will take him longer than 4 to 5 hours ( I could be wrong, won't be the first) I hope he tells us how long it takes him when he's done. So Steven please do tell when your done, we want to know!:yup

Rite now it is snowing and I have a parking lot to put in, in the morning, so I hope it stops. My roller doesn't work very well in the snow, for some reason it just spins the tires.
 

CascadeScaper

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
Occupation
2nd year Operating Engineer Apprentice
Two days with the 323, 1 day with a 3 ton machine. This is assuming he has another guy in a skid steer shuttling material away from the hole. That 323 should be cycling 3-4 a minute, I can hit 5 cycles a minute with our pretty easy. This is assuming he's just "throwing" dirt away from the hole, those cycles times should be very easy to reach.
 

Cat420

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
527
Location
Pine Bush Ny
Occupation
Construction, small engine and machine shop work
Here's a picture of the 323
http://www.bobcat.com.au/images/high_resol/press_july_2005_323excavator.jpg

A machine that small has it's purpose, but I don't think this project is it. If you owned one that would be different, but since you have to rent something anyway it will be better to go a little bigger. A 120 would blow through this hole very quickly, but a 10-12,000lb machine would probably be a good compromise between cost, production, and not taking up too much space on site. By me it would only be around $110 round trip to have that size machine dropped off by the rental place. You'll really kill yourself with the limited reach of something as small as a 301. Also don't worry about not being very experienced on a bigger machine, the controls are all basically the same and after a day using a medium size one, I bet you will be looking to play the the biggest ones out there.
 

Electra_Glide

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
273
Location
Western Pennsylvania
A 120 would blow through this hole very quickly, but a 10-12,000lb machine would probably be a good compromise between cost, production, and not taking up too much space on site.

I agree with Cat's assessment. A machine of that size would be a good compromise. I wouldn't worry about your trailer, just have the rental company deliver it. The delivery charge for that size machine is certainly going to be a lot less than a 120.

I used a 323 to do this job:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=14082&postcount=212

The 323 was the right machine for this job due to the tight conditions I was working in. If I remember right, each area was just under 20' x 20'. Depth was about 36" in the middle and 48" for the footer trenches. Spoils were cast off behind me and then moved with a skidsteer and stockpiled. Bewteen me not being the fastest operator (I'd rather be good than fast), and the tight conditions (had to take a bunch of time when I repositioned the excavator to make sure I didn't knock down the roof), it took two 8-hour days with me doing everything (layout, grade checking, excavator, and skidsteer). I ran into shale and had to spend some time in the trench to bust it up because the machine didn't have enough power/weight to do it on it's own.

As others have already said, a 323 is going to be a little small for what you want to do. It will work, but it's going to take a while. The reach isn't going to be there if you're going 5' down. Even though the hole is going to be backfilled with gravel, you're still going to have to be close on your grade and will have to do some grading on the bottom. Whoever you're working for is going to determine the quantity of gravel they need based on the 21x21x5 dimmensions. If you end up with one end of your hole way off from the other, they're going to be putting in more gravel than they figured and you're costing them money (this is the voice of experience here...:crying).

Also remember that even though this is a "by-the-hour" job, you can't let to costs get so far out of line (due to the job taking too long) that the customer feels they are not getting a good value for their money. In my area, this job is "worth" about $1300-$1500 dollars, since lots of guys would come in and knock this out with a full-size TLB in a day. You can charge whatever price you want, but if it's significantly higher than what the market will bear, you might not get many call-backs.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out...oh yea, and take a bunch of pictures to share with the class...:thumbsup

Hey Digger, what's my cut of the consulting fees :waving ?

Joe
 

CascadeScaper

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
Occupation
2nd year Operating Engineer Apprentice
Hey Digger, what's my cut of the consulting fees :waving ?

Joe

Ahem, I'll be the judge of that! :thumbsup You're right, the hourly costs between machines aren't linear (as we all know). Meaning, a backhoe at $90 per hour is 3 times more productive than a 323 that is $60. If it was linear, the 323 would be $30. That doesn't pencil out. That's the problem with smaller machines, they have their place, but you will be outbid on the larger projects with smaller equipment as their productivity just isn't there. Rent a 12K pound machine and kill the job in a day. $1500, call it good. You'll easily make money there, and truth be told you could make good at $1200.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,652
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
Hey Digger, what's my cut of the consulting fees

This will be reply #37, but 6 of those were from the original poster, so as of now, you get 1/31. Of course, as the replies add up, your cut goes down, unless you're adding replies too. Fer instance, just by posting this, my share went fom 3/30 to 4/31. CS is in charge of exactly how much the fee will be, but if we keep it up, I think we can get Steven to take a loss on the job, no matter how much he charges... :yup
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Sooo, if I get a cut for my disposable digital camera expertise then that makes everybody's cut...umm...err...$100 sounds good to me. :yup
 

jimsbcs

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
19
Location
Tioga,ND
If you can have a ramp at one end, why not dig it with your S185. Out here in California we dig most pools with a bobcat in one day and they average 110 to 140 yds of material. Of course there is always the rocky son of a gun that comes up every now and then and those can't be dug with a mini excavator anyway.

This is what I would do also. and have done many times. Why rent a mini when you can do it with your S185. :yup Jim
 
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