• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Buy Equipment before Inflation kicks in!

DarrylMueller

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
309
Location
Altamont Pass, Livermore, CA
Occupation
Excavating Contractor & Operator
OK we got the stimulus money going to hit the money supply. How good is your memory. Here was the last time we had hyperinflation in 1973 era. I bought a new IH 125C crawler loader in 1971 for around $18,000 can't remember exact amount. Several years latter 1973 the equipment cost had doubled in cost to buy. You can look up and see who was President at that time. That is what inflation is going to on big time. I was after a TD8 at the time. The dealer told me it was sticker shock, and some guys are getting used to it, but they had a real hard time selling equipment for a long time.
I am saying this because history is going to repeat itself again. And you can save big dollars by buying in the next several months before 2012, which is when the entire stimulus will be in circulation, in the money supply. There will be better buys coming as equipment goes for sale for lack of work and you can make money if buy before inflation gets into full swing. If it happens that equipment could more than double in cost along with everything else. This still leaves the Cap in Trade out of the equation that will add a CO2 tax or carbon tax to the manufacturing of the equipment.
 

special tool

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
878
Location
Bethel, Ct.
I agree with you, as usual - its a good idea.


So I think safe to assume we won't catch you over at democratic headquarters, Darryl?:D
 

Speedpup

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
Occupation
President and all else that needs done!
They is so much equipment out there so cheap it will be a long time before it jumps in price. Factory is trying to give away 08 telehandlers that are 85 for 66 and still can't do it. We could be headed for a serious long recession or depression and you will see deflation. It is already happening now as prices drop. Doubt the stimulus will make anything jump much at all.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
There will be some good deals on new and used equipment.However in these uncertain times I am keeping my money in my pocket for now.Ill wait and see what this summer brings before making any financial decisions.I dont expect as much residential work this year do to the economy.I would not want to be in a situation where I have to put a "for sale" sighn on all my equipment.I would also be very careful about borrowing alot of money now.The economy will turn around,its just a matter of how long it will take.
 

Speedpup

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
Occupation
President and all else that needs done!
borrow not me :eek: I have no debt and want to keep it that way in these times. Two more mortgage payments that were 529 :D for 15 years. Cash is KING. Some tempting deals out there but I need to just buy it with no loans.
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
have you read the stimulus bill? i read the first 386 pages out of 1100 of the original draft, and was sickened.....stimulus? what are 2 things people HAVE to have? they need food....(agriculture)....and shelter (construction)....farmers and contractors make money, two nickels rubbing in the pocket causes great discomfort, we need to immediately run to town and spend one of them, that's how you stimulate our economy....if you read the original bill, $54 billion, went to infrastructure programs....okay.....$98 billion went to the dept. of education...my first question was this to pay back the NEA for votes? the money that went to GM and Chrysler...did that go into new product development, paying off suppliers, maintain their viability as a manufacturer, employer? be my guess, a lot of that went to shore up retirement programs for retired employees. i don't want to get political here, because i know the mods discourage that, and i respect that....but please people....take some time and read what you're paying for, where these funds are going. then you need to contact your representation and voice your opinions, whatever they may be....this ordeal is a LONG ways from being over. i personally have elected to buy what is/when needed, i refuse to take what savings i have and speculate on a vegas throw of the dice....
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
You have to remember, money to auto makers are loans. It is expected to be paid back -- with interest. However, I'm not so sure that Chrysler will make it this time.

Money to financial and insurance companies is free money to them, though they are supposed to have some government oversight and taxpayers are now supposed to be stockholders too. So far, it looks as though most of that money just went into the banker's vaults to make their books look good. Plus, with millions losing their jobs, banks are not keen on loaning money to jobless folks.

Personally, I think our banks have gotten way to big for their britches, same with insurance companies. For sure, all the promised economies of large size have never trickled down to consumers. The only ones to save a buck were the banks and other mega-firms.

Good News!

GM turned down 2 billion federal bucks today for March.
 

Turbo21835

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,135
Location
Road Dog
Good News!

GM turned down 2 billion federal bucks today for March.

Sounds nice and rosey doesnt it? Neighbor is a millwright at the shell of a foundry, aka Grey Iron, who oddly enough doesnt cast any iron any more. Hell, they dont even smelt their own aluminum. He seems to think Gm doesnt survive this one either. The way I see it, GM gets split in several directions. Hummer gone, and most of the others becoming their own company again, with a percentage owned by GMAC. I think we are going to see banks get split too. Maybe thats just me.

Bottom line, you cant ship your scrap metal to China, have it returned as a product, and expect the nation you live in to prosper. Its time we return to building it here, and buying it only if it has :usa on the side. This also means built by citizens of this country. The news made a big deal about "stimulus jobs going to illegal aliens." Thats no big surprise. I cant really blame those folks either, everyone is overlooking the bloody drug wars of mexico that are on going. This is something that may spill our way if it continues.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,651
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
i don't want to get political here, because i know the mods discourage that, and i respect that....but please people....take some time and read what you're paying for,

That's right. So, when I'm done posting this, I'm going to have to edit it out and give myself a stern warning . :nono (Well, not really, because I think I can say what I'm thinking while speaking in generalities.)

We're all familiar with the news coverage every year, about how important the upcoming Christmas shopping season is going to be for the economy. People buy lots of stuff--good. People avoid buying lots of stuff--bad.

That's because when people spend that money, it spreads around. A little for the store clerk, and the stock people. A little for the trucker that hauled the stuff to the store. A little for the people at the warehouse, some for the people at the electric company for keeping the lights lit at both places. Some for the people that actually manufactured the goods, and some more for the people that mined or grew the raw materials that went into that manufacture.

That stimulates the economy. It supposed to be good for everybody. I can't disagree with that.

My problem with all that is this--a lot of what people buy, to gift you with, is stuff you'd never buy for yourself, because you really have no use for it--a music CD by an artist you don't like, or a really ugly sweater. The mony spent stimulates the economy, but really, it's wasted, because the CD ends up gathering dust, and the sweater ends up as a shop rag. (After you've worn it once, just to be polite.) That money would be just as much of a stimulus if it had been spent on a few pairs of nice, heavy, wool socks, and it wouldn't be wasted.

I see the stimulus bill in the same way. Getting the money into circulation is good. Keeping those people employed, and taking home paychecks is good. But if we're going to do that with billions of taxpayer dollars, let's buy wool socks with it, instead of ugly sweaters.

Bottom line, you cant ship your scrap metal to China, have it returned as a product, and expect the nation you live in to prosper. Its time we return to building it here, and buying it only if it has :usa on the side.

On to my next (hopefully) profound thought....

By providing a cleaner environment, better working conditions, a higher standard of safety, etc, we've put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage with much of the world, and the resulting price difference between domestic goods and foreign goods is difficult to overcome.

What we need to do, is pass a law that says anything sold in this country must be produced in accordance with the same laws that would apply if it were produced here, on our own shores. And that means the entire supply chain, from the farm or mine, through shipping the raw materials, the manufacturing process, shipping the finished product, and the energy that goes into all of that.

Is the farm or mine of the country of origin OSHA/MSHA compliant? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that product here. Would the trucks hauling the stuff pass an inspection by our own loved and respected DOT cops? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that stuff here. Was it manufactured in some sweatshop by 12 year olds working 16 hour days? Was that shop clean and safe, in compliance with our standards? Was the smoke coming from the smokestack in compliance with what makes our EPA happy? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that here.

If our environmental laws, our labor laws, our safety laws, are good enough for us, they should be good enough for everybody. They're put in place to protect people from unscrupulous businesses that would pollute, take advantage of people, and imperil their health and safety, right? Why should we be hypocritical and allow people from other countries to live under risks that we need protections from? They're just as human as us, so they should get the same protections we provide for ourselves.

Of course, all that would really do, is level the playing field for the businesses that are located here. They should like that. The side effect would be that, to the extent that we've put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage by setting higher standards for what we will and will not allow, it would once again make "building it here" competitive with building it somewhere else. And if our own workforce still can't compete and be as productive as any workforce in the world, then we deserve to go down the tubes...
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
Some of my classmates from high school worked at Gray Iron, and Saginaw Steering Gear too. Back in the late sixties and seventies, it was good money for a high school graduate. We all had muscle cars and girl friends -- life was good. Between Dow and GM, a guy did well and close to home too.

Things started slowing down in the seventies though, and never seemed to get any better, just all down hill. Dow grew, started off-shoring production. GM did as well. For years and years GM and the other automakers contracted machine work all over the state in little two and three man shops. That's about all over with now. Might pick up a little if the bigger suppliers go belly up though. It would have to be the little guys start doing the work again, unless it all goes off-shore.

Lots of road construction and mining iron sitting right now. Paving seems to promise some work this year though, but gosh, I'd hate to work asphalt here in Arizona, where the daytime temperatures are hotter than the blacktop. I sure hope dirt work picks up.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Residential work will be down this year.The customer will put off the swimming pool,new addition to the house,the pond,ect.there will be jobs to do,but it won't be what we are used to.It will turn around in time,It always has.
 

stumpjumper83

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,979
Location
Port Allegany, pa
Occupation
Movin dirt
I dunno 25c, if your not going to buy that new house, your going to improve the one you already have, which means instead of digging full basements its additions. Pools, thats a luxury item that prolly will not do good. Ponds, some are just for looks, others are for irrigation and other uses. Some are partially funded by the dept. of conservation, it could be a big year for ponds if the bugets allow it. If more people stay home there is a good chance of more septic work. I think the owner operator that owns his machine free and clear is going to do the best in the next couple of years. For instance, if you bought an older backhoe for 10k outright, you can afford to charge only $80 an hour instead of the $110 that your competition is charging for a new or newer hoe that the bank still hold the keys too. Basically when you look at overall costs, you can put more in your pocket at 80 than he can at 110...
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
I dunno 25c, if your not going to buy that new house, your going to improve the one you already have, which means instead of digging full basements its additions. Pools, thats a luxury item that prolly will not do good. Ponds, some are just for looks, others are for irrigation and other uses. Some are partially funded by the dept. of conservation, it could be a big year for ponds if the bugets allow it. If more people stay home there is a good chance of more septic work. I think the owner operator that owns his machine free and clear is going to do the best in the next couple of years. For instance, if you bought an older backhoe for 10k outright, you can afford to charge only $80 an hour instead of the $110 that your competition is charging for a new or newer hoe that the bank still hold the keys too. Basically when you look at overall costs, you can put more in your pocket at 80 than he can at 110...

I hope you are right stumpjumper83,All we can do is adapt to the situation that exists at the time.
 

LT-x7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Central COMMI-fornia
Occupation
Earth Moving Contractor
What we need to do, is pass a law that says anything sold in this country must be produced in accordance with the same laws that would apply if it were produced here, on our own shores. And that means the entire supply chain, from the farm or mine, through shipping the raw materials, the manufacturing process, shipping the finished product, and the energy that goes into all of that.

Is the farm or mine of the country of origin OSHA/MSHA compliant? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that product here. Would the trucks hauling the stuff pass an inspection by our own loved and respected DOT cops? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that stuff here. Was it manufactured in some sweatshop by 12 year olds working 16 hour days? Was that shop clean and safe, in compliance with our standards? Was the smoke coming from the smokestack in compliance with what makes our EPA happy? NO? Sorry, you can't sell that here.

If our environmental laws, our labor laws, our safety laws, are good enough for us, they should be good enough for everybody. They're put in place to protect people from unscrupulous businesses that would pollute, take advantage of people, and imperil their health and safety, right? Why should we be hypocritical and allow people from other countries to live under risks that we need protections from? They're just as human as us, so they should get the same protections we provide for ourselves.

Of course, all that would really do, is level the playing field for the businesses that are located here. They should like that. The side effect would be that, to the extent that we've put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage by setting higher standards for what we will and will not allow, it would once again make "building it here" competitive with building it somewhere else. And if our own workforce still can't compete and be as productive as any workforce in the world, then we deserve to go down the tubes...

All those BS regulations is what killed production in america.
I agree we need to produce everything we can on U.S, soil.:usa
If all you want to do is level the playing field get rid of all that BS.
Really the government needs to do NOTHING! (Except maybe get the hell out of my business) It's up to all of us..... Be American.... Buy American!
 

Speedpup

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
Occupation
President and all else that needs done!
If you don't buy it from here they won't build it here. Time to wake up America and that goes for everything. Gee remember the great service economy we were heading to? It's been outsourced too. :Banghead

Remember Japan's economy has been in trouble for ten years and it has fundamentaly changed their culture on purchasing habits.
 

DarrylMueller

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
309
Location
Altamont Pass, Livermore, CA
Occupation
Excavating Contractor & Operator
Boy so great stuff going on here knowledge, no sheep people here! I have the link for estimated 300,000 construction jobs paid for by the stimulus plan will go to illegal workers after leading ///////// removed a provision requiring verification of citizenship. I am required by law to do E-Check?????? Just in case you want to forward and wake up some friends.
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/st...2009/03/09/190028.html?s=al&promo_code=7BCE-1
Arizona has one up on all the states! Employers loose there business license's and are fined! It works to!
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
PITTSBURGH – Caterpillar Inc. on Tuesday announced plans to lay off more than 2,400 employees at five plants in Illinois, Indiana and Georgia as the heavy equipment maker continues to cut costs amid the global economic downturn.

Caterpillar, the world's largest maker of mining and construction equipment, has seen its sales wither as the sluggish world economy and credit crisis weaken demand for its products, used to build everything from houses to highways. The company had expanded dramatically in recent years, helped by a building boom in developing countries.

In response to the worsening conditions, Caterpillar in January announced job cuts that will ultimately eliminate 20,000 positions. It also said it would slash executive compensation by up to 50 percent and offer buyouts to about 25,000 U.S.-based employees. Caterpillar, which employs about 112,000 people worldwide, said it had imposed a global hiring freeze.

In the latest cuts, the Peoria, Ill.-based company said 2,365 support and management workers had been notified of layoffs expected to last at least six months — including 245 announced previously — and 89 workers will be let go permanently.

Among the affected workers are 1,726 people at plants in Illinois. They include 911 workers at a plant in East Peoria that makes track-type tractors and pipelayers and 815 at a plant in Aurora, where the company produces hydraulic excavators and wheel loaders. Caterpillar notified the employees Tuesday of the layoffs which are expected to last at least six months starting in June.

In Indiana, Caterpillar said it notified 439 employees at its large engine factory in Lafayette of layoffs also expected to last at least six months, effective May 29. The plant makes diesel engines for boats, locomotives and other applications.

Caterpillar notified 89 employees at its Jefferson, Ga., fuel systems plant that they would be laid off permanently when the company closes the facility, expected by the end of June. Work currently done at the plant will be shifted to factories in Thomasville, Ga., and Pontiac, Ill.

Also in Georgia, Caterpillar said it had notified 200 employees at a plant in Griffin, where the company makes generators, engines and oil service units, of layoffs scheduled to begin in May.

The company also has implemented so-called rolling layoffs, which vary in duration, at plants across the country and around the world, according to Jim Dugan, a Caterpillar spokesman.

Caterpillar — perhaps best known for its yellow-and-black painted backhoes, tractors and paving machines — said more layoffs may be needed as the year continues, depending on business conditions.

In January, Caterpillar said its earnings plunged 32 percent in the last three months of 2008, and that it had lowered its 2009 profit expectations. Demand had plummeted at the end of the year, pulled down by slumping commodity prices, tight credit markets and a decline in home building. It said a first-quarter loss is possible as costs may outstrip falling orders.

Shares of Caterpillar added 5 cents to $26.46 in early afternoon trading.
 

risc4000

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
6
Location
US
Residential work will be down this year.The customer will put off the swimming pool,new addition to the house,the pond,ect.there will be jobs to do,but it won't be what we are used to.It will turn around in time,It always has.

or buy their own stuff and do it themselves to keep costs down.
i have a small farm and have been buying equipment to do the work myself instead of hiring. Saved me big $ over the past 6 years and good for taxes.
 

special tool

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
878
Location
Bethel, Ct.
or buy their own stuff and do it themselves to keep costs down.
i have a small farm and have been buying equipment to do the work myself instead of hiring. Saved me big $ over the past 6 years and good for taxes.

Believe me, you are a very small percentage of the residential market.
Most of the yuppies on the east and west coast are scared to even look at an excavator.;)
 
Top