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Building a Lake

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
I’m trying to put a lake together this summer, and looking for a well-used dozer / track loader to buy and do the job. I found a CAT 955L nearby that I’m going to go look at soon. I know you can move dirt fairly well with a track loader, but for a large lake dam, is it a good idea or should I be looking for a dozer? I’m looking at a 300’+ long dam, 26’ tall in the center, so I’m moving about 9k yards of dirt.. Quite a bit of dirt to move, and I’d like to get it done this summer.. What’s everyone’s thoughts?
 

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redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
I don't have a comment about the iron other than take someone along who knows what they are looking at and get some oil samples.

I will caution you, the size of that lake is going to require a lot of paper work. I'm not sure of the regulations in Indiana either, but in PA, you enter into a whole new class of regulation when the water depth gets over 12' I believe. Have you done any soil probes or drilling to figure out what material you will run into? Do you have any idea of how much area will drain into the lake? Have you had an emergency spill way designed to handle the required storm flows? If you have all of that covered, I'd say you are off to a good start! We always enjoy pictures or videos!
 

AllDodge

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,312
Location
Kentucky
While a good running 955 can do some work, it's not a transport machine, need a dump truck.

Agree get someone that knows the machine, I have one and mine took more money fixing then I paid for it.
 

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
Yeah, all the details are ironed out. Plenty of material available within a couple hundred yards of the dam - no dump truck required.

While a good running 955 can do some work, it's not a transport machine, need a dump truck.

Agree get someone that knows the machine, I have one and mine took more money fixing then I paid for it.

Will a 955 push dirt? Clearly not as well as a straight blade dozer, I take it. But how less efficient are we talking - 20% less efficient? 50% less efficient?
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,549
Location
Canada
I'd be a little leery of a $7000 955L. Thinking there may be some potentially serious issues with it at that price. Bucket teeth adapters look shot and it should have some counterweight on the back. The nice thing about a loader is you can pick up material and dump it where you need it. You can also spread it out while dumping. Are you going to use the loader to pack the dam? A loader will pack much better than a dozer.
 
Last edited:

MG84

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2023
Messages
682
Location
Virginia
Get the biggest dozer you can reasonably afford (D6-D8), and some means of hauling dirt, pull type scraper would be my choice. You are probably going to be looking at some very long pushes with a dozer, once you get over 200' that is scraper or truck territory IMO. Heck, more than 150' and I'm looking for something to haul it. If you do decided on a track loader, again, the largest you can afford, 953-963 or 977 would be minimum, but I'd stick with a dozer/scraper. A scraper or truck will also take care of compaction, not going to get enough with just a loader or dozer alone.
 

bam1968

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
533
Location
IA
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
As MG84 said, anything over 150 ft it needs to be hauled. You mentioned the dirt is within 200 yds, if that is the case you need to be looking at a scraper in my opinion. With a scraper you can load, haul and compact the fill with one machine. Do you have a creek feeding your lake? If so how are you going to dig your core trench? Do you have an excavator? FWIW I wouldn't even think about trying to build a dam that size with a 955.. YMMV
 

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
Thanks for all the input guys. I probably should have tagged this conversation onto my previous thread about building my lake - a lot of these questions have already been addressed there. I was just trying to see if a 955 would be up to the task, or if the crowd would think it's too small. I had previously asked about a 963 (Here) and came away with the impression it would be more than sufficient. Bottom line is, I can't afford a scraper AND the tractor to pull it. I only get one machine and I think it'll have to be a dozer / track loader. I'm still young enough, dumb enough, and energetic enough to put the hours in on the machine to get the job done - even if it does take a little longer than it should due to the distance I'll be pushing dirt. I also have a backhoe I'll be digging the keyway with, so have all that taken care of. And I'll plan to resell whatever dozer / track loader I get after the lake is done, so it just has to last me this summer..

I went and looked at the 955L tonight. It's certainly a $7k machine, nothing more, perhaps less... Few questions I'll throw out here for feedback:

- Seemed to start and run fine. No excessive smoke or anything concerning there. Engine oil looked fine - I didn't get too far into checking any other fluids yet.

- It doesn't turn left. It goes straight just fine, and turns right just fine, but when you press the left foot pedal, it starts to turn, then quits. I've never run a dozer / Track Loader before, so I'll do my best to explain what I witnessed.. When going forward, then I pressed the left pedal, it seems to lose forward drive completely for a split second, then it feels like it engages the right track for a half second or so, then basically stops driving the right track. You can tell it's pushing that right track a little, but not hard enough to turn the machine. It's as if it starts to engage the right track, but then "Decides not to". I know it's not making any such decisions, but it was interesting I could feel it start to engage, then stop. Same happened in forward or reverse - no turning left.

- When pressing the right pedal, it seemed to do the same split second stop of drive, but then the left track engaged and drove hard like it should. Is that split second of no drive normal?

- It will drive straight, and push dirt, and turn right all day (or at least for 10 minutes).

- If I was going straight forward and really pressed the left pedal, the track would stop / drag. The left track brakes appear to be working.

- I noticed that the left pedal seemed to go basically all the way to the floor, while the right met enough resistance to stop a fair amount before the left pedal. Is this significant?

- My guess is that the drive clutch for the right track is weak? Let me know if you agree with that assessment. Is there a possibility it might just need adjustment? If so, and it's an hour or less to try that - I'll go back and work on it and see if I can get it working.

- Also noticed when in reverse in speed 3 (highest speed), it didn't seem to want to move until I was full throttle. And even then it seemed a little soft. Forward, all 3 speeds seemed to work fine.

- I watched a good youtube video of a guy pulling the brake / clutch pack out. Looked fairly involved, but not undoable. Any further input on that? Is it worse than it looks? I realize even if I was dumb enough to take this on, I'd have to find a shop to do the clutch / brake replacement. Anybody have an idea on parts cost?

- I think there's a chance I could pick this up for 1/2 the $7k listed price. Would you still avoid it at $3,500? I think I know the answer - I'm just trying to find something in my miniature budget here, and I'm not afraid to put some work in.

- Aside from the drive problem, it has a lift cylinder shooting fluid out, and a tilt cylinder with a slow leak. Undercarriage is about 50% - enough to get through my job for sure. I got caught up in checking out the drive problem, and forgot to write down the hours of the machine. Will be going back soon to look at that, get serial number etc.
 

bam1968

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
533
Location
IA
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
From your description you say it won't turn left but when pushing the left pedal the machine basically stops. Is that correct? If your left clutch/brakes were not working the machine should just keep moving straight forward and not try to turn. Basically the right track should keep moving.
 

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
You are correct. When pushing the left pedal, the machine stops moving. The right track seems to engage for about 1/2 second, then just feels like it disengages. I think the clutch on the right track is either out of adjustment? Or just gone and needs replaced.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,549
Location
Canada
You need to have working steering and brakes. 9000yd's is about 4500 buckets of dirt. That's quite a bit of work and a lot of driving. You'll want a decent running and operating machine. I wouldn't worry too much about 3rd gear reverse not working. You never really want to use it. It wears out the undercarriage the fastest out of anything you can do. I know you want to do the job as cheap as possible but the loader you're looking at could be a real money pit.
 

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
You need to have working steering and brakes. 9000yd's is about 4500 buckets of dirt. That's quite a bit of work and a lot of driving. You'll want a decent running and operating machine. I wouldn't worry too much about 3rd gear reverse not working. You never really want to use it. It wears out the undercarriage the fastest out of anything you can do. I know you want to do the job as cheap as possible but the loader you're looking at could be a real money pit.
Yeah, I’ve pretty-much already written it off. Just wondered if there could be an adjustment that would fix this, that would be worth me trying.. Probably will head back to the marketplace ads though
 

AllDodge

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,312
Location
Kentucky
When pedal is about half way in the power is removed from that side of the track, push in further and brake is applied to stop track. The brake adjustment is easy to do with a 9/16 deep well. Remove cover, tighten brake nut down till snug, then back off 1 1/2 turns. Put cover back on

There are a few different grease points on the F/R and gear rods and pivots. When shifting the rod has a pivot point on the right rear of the trans which might not have a grease fitting (mine didn't). If this point is sticking then the trans won't fully go into gear. This may not be the issue with 3rd. In any case the machine should spin the tracks when digging.

Check the Trans fluid when warm and at idle. Use same dip stick to check differential. Also pull final drive plugs at rear of machine. The gear lube should be level with the plug. If plug is removed and oil pours out the this means seals in differential is leaking.
 

BackertheBiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
66
Location
Indiana
When pedal is about half way in the power is removed from that side of the track, push in further and brake is applied to stop track. The brake adjustment is easy to do with a 9/16 deep well. Remove cover, tighten brake nut down till snug, then back off 1 1/2 turns. Put cover back on

There are a few different grease points on the F/R and gear rods and pivots. When shifting the rod has a pivot point on the right rear of the trans which might not have a grease fitting (mine didn't). If this point is sticking then the trans won't fully go into gear. This may not be the issue with 3rd. In any case the machine should spin the tracks when digging.

Check the Trans fluid when warm and at idle. Use same dip stick to check differential. Also pull final drive plugs at rear of machine. The gear lube should be level with the plug. If plug is removed and oil pours out the this means seals in differential is leaking.

All good info. I think the only question that matters right now though, is about the clutches. If the right track drive clutch is slipping (that's the only diagnosis I can think of here?) then is that adjustable to make it not slip? Or is that just indicative of a bad clutch? If it's a bad clutch and would need replaced, then I think I'm walking away here.
 

AllDodge

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,312
Location
Kentucky
If brakes are adjusted correctly then try to dig or place against big tree or wall. If the tracks spin when machine stops moving the clutches are holding. If tracks don't spin then it's a clutch issue
 

AllDodge

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,312
Location
Kentucky
Forgot one thing for adjusting brakes. The pedals must come all the way up. If they don't move all the way to upper stops then this means brakes are not adjusted correctly and the transmission is not fully engaged (the part about pedal pushed half way to disengage clutch)
 

Dave Neubert

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Messages
1,660
Location
Monroe NC
You need to stay away from this 955 it sounds like a money pit. I would get a d7 or d8 and a 615 pan to do what you need to do 200- 300 yards is a long way to push dirt
 
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