bought my first backhoe (case 580b) but having issues

[bigskyelliott]

last year i bought an older case 580b ck. went great until it over heated. had oil or diesel in the coolant/radiator. i replaced the head gasket but continued to have the mix of oil and coolant. when replacing the filter for the trans/hydraulic (in front of the radiator) i seen one of the hydraulic hoses go to the bottom left of the radiator. is there a built in trans cooler in the radiator and if so maybe cracked radiator???
2nd problem-i changed the transmission fluid and filter (in front of radiator) and now the darn thing dont want to move. used napa premium hydraulic/trans fluid. if i put the stabilizer arms down to get the back wheels off the ground then put it in gear and let the tires rotate for awhile it will sometimes move. its like after the fluid warms up or the rotation of the wheels gets more fluid into the system. what did i do wrong? what am i missing? wrong fluid??? im ready to pull my hair out trying to figure out these two problems. did find older threads but nothing about the thing working fine until i put clean/new fluid causing the machine not to move.

 

[Phil]

It's quite common for the 580CK and 580BCK radiators with the built-in cooler to fail. Some will adapt an automotive type transmission cooler, even though it's a bit tight up there. These systems do run a lot of pressure through that cooler and the cooler you find may not be rated high enough. Still I have seen many adapted and they work okay.

The cooler can be bypassed for troubleshooting and running the machine for short time intervals.

I would check your torque tube drain plugs, for coolant also. One roughly under the torque converter and the other directly under the shuttle dipstick.

I can't see how changing the oil and filter is going to cause a problem with the shuttle. The oil you are using should work and I can't see a problem with the filter, even if it was the wrong one. The shuttle uses about 3/4 of a 20 liter pail unless the torque converter has been drained. Is you dash pressure gauge working, in the green(unless shifting or depressing clutch pedal), and are you trying to move this machine when cold(below freezing?). B's are notoriously sluggish when cold. It's possible the grade of oil you are using is 'heavier', making the problem of getting a B to move when cold, worse. I think I use TDH oil, can't remember for sure, but someone here recently posted about using ATF with improved results. Phil

 

[oldseabee]

If you have a Phase III transaxle, there is a declutch solenoid in the control valve that blocks oil from getting to the clutches. If you had coolant in the trans oil the solenoid may be stuck in the declutch position, normally it has to be energized electrically to declutch and spring loaded to allow clutch oil to pass. Don't know why changing the oil would cause this but I learned a long time ago to never say never.
There is also a modulator spool that gives a soft shift, this spool has an orfice in it, if the orfice gets blocked you will either get no shift or a hard shift, not sure which. May be someone has more experience with these machines then I do.

 

[bigskyelliott]

was hoping to get you phil. was up till after 2am searching archives and found where phil and atco responded to someone with similar issue. i was putting hyd. fluid in the trans axle. i flushed system with $2 motor oil as suggested and replaced with 75/90# gl-5 gear oil. working great. thanks guys. as far as an oily residue in my radiator. could it maybe residue left over from before i replaced the head gasket? its a lite skim on top of the coolant, not milky colored but darker like dirty motor oil. i have drain the system a few times since but never used a flush. do you guys think i should or do you feel its another issue ? if that dont work ill try a after market trans cooler as phil suggested.
last issue is i only have 3rd and 4th gear. took apart shifter assembly. i moved the piece that connects to the bottom of the shifter/trans gear over to the 1st and 2nd gear and it worked great for a couple times. now im back to 3rd and 4th. does anyone have the part # and ill just replace it. great site-thank again guys

 

[Phil]

Oldseabee, the advice you offer is for a much newer 580K or SK. No doubt much needed when problems like that come up here. I've got a 580SK with a very soft shift so I read it with interest.

This chap has an older 580B, early '70's. I think oil residue will stay in the cooling system and will just coat everything until filled again. A rad flush would get this out, so that you know whether or not there is still a problem. I have used detergent in extreme cases. Keep in mind big sky, that there is a separate compartment for the trans/diff not to be confused with the shuttle oil compartment. Both have separate dipsticks. I believe you should use only GL-4 oil in the trans/diff, as GL-5 is not good for brass but I'm not sure about that.

Don't know what to tell you about the gearshift problem. A 'B' gearshift cover will sometimes push it's dowel down, into the case, but that only prevents the shifter rod from going all the way into first. There is a pin in the gearshift rod itself and it's important that this is in place. Gearshift should not rotate and the pin keeps everything aligned. Check that out first. Phil

 

[bigskyelliott]

hope gl-5 is ok. the deed was already done. do you think i should drain and put gl-4 in. that will be another $25 but if it will prolong the usage it will be worth it. after things settle down a bit ill remove the shifter and post a better description. by chance do you where i might get a diagram?. bought manual cd via ebay. what a waste of money.. thank again phil

 

[Phil]

Probably okay with the GL-5, there has been a lot of talk about it's effects on brass and similar metals in the transmission, probably minimized with additives now, I'm not sure. Harder to get GL-4 oil. Here is one link, lots of info out there on the topic:http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729255

You should be able to manually pry the 1st and 2nd shifter rod back and forth, into gear, if the gears align, once the cover is off. Check that the fork is tight on the rod.

I can't remember exactly how that aligning pin is placed but it's either in the cover or pressed in the gearshift 'ball'. Don't see it in the picture. Pull the gearshift rod out of it's cover, by removing a ring, and you will see it. It's been a while since I worked on one.

Here is a pic from CHN. Phil

 

[Tinkerer]

Phil,
It looks like Item #7 in the retaining screw and #8 is the jam nut for it.
The hole for the screw is on the left side of the shift lever tower right where the ball seats. At least that is how it looks to me.

 

[Phil]

Thanks, I could not remember how that went together. Phil

 

[bigskyelliott]

thanks for the diagram phil. have a few other projects to finish b4 i get back into the backhoe. im trying to finish a 36 coupe, my wife slid my truck into a tree this winter so fixing that, my son played chicken with a log and lost so im replacing the forks on my motorcycle, all while wiring, insulating and sheetrocking my garage. too busy. im losing my mind.
im not the brightest bulb in the box when it comes to these computers. is there anyway for me to send the diagram/part list to my email for safe keeping and how do you attach pictures to the threads? thank again phil and all

 

[oldseabee]

Two ways to save this diagram.
1. Right click the diagram, you will get a box with several choices. right click "Save As"
you will get a box with all your file folders, either create a new file folder or choose "My Documents" from the list, give the diagram a file name that you can recognize then click "Save". The diagram is now in your computer as a file, you can email yourself and attach this file to the email.
2. Right click the diagram, click "Copy", the open up your word program and open a new document, right click just to the right of your cursor, when the box comes up click on "Paste", the diagram will show up on your document, then go up to the tool bar, click on "File", then click on "Save as", it will do the same as #1, name it and save it to a folder.

 

[Phil]

I have attached a picture I took, under my 580SK's rustyfloor. I think this is the valve oldseabee is referring to. A thread dedicated to late 580K transaxle problems, for all to refer too, would be a good thing. Phil

 

[oldseabee]

I did go to Racine back in the 90's for school on the 480E and 580 K. Trans axle and hydraulics, I have schematics, writeups, some specs, and diagrams for both systems.
Phase III in effect from PIN JJG0020000 on, except that 22 machines before JJG0020000 were built with Phase III

 

[bigskyelliott]

phil sent me the shifter diagram for my case 580b (thank you phil). im now going to get started on the backhoe. before getting started, does anyone have the next diagram down (from shifter forks to transmission). i did get my radiator pressure tested and the trans. cooler was shot. couldn't get replacement cooler so went as phil suggested and by -passed trans. cooler in radiator and added aftermarket auto trans. cooler. SO FOR THOSE OF YOU who are getting water in the transmission (milky colored fluid) check to see if your trans. cooler is built into the radiator.