Bought another welder

[Welder Dave]

I came across a Miller Dialarc 250P AC/DC at auction and ended up buying it for $300.00. It has cables, about a 10' power cord and running gear under it. The P in the model means it has power factor correction so it will run on a smaller breaker. I'll have to measure how long the cables are to get some idea what they're worth.
I sold a Lincoln AC 225/DC125 for $450 with about 90' of #2 cable. This Miller is 3 times the machine and will burn 3/16" 7018 no problem. I'm going to clean it up and try it out at the trailer shop. With the cables and wheels under it, I think I should be able to get $800, maybe more. I've seen them without cables or running gear for $750-$800. It's a fairly big machine but there isn't a lot of electronics to go bad like newer inverters. As someone on another forum also pointed out, they aren't easy to steal.
The price of welders and welding cable has just skyrocketed in the last several years. I also bought a Fibre-metal leather welding hood for $17.50. They used to be under $100. I looked online and they're now over $300cad. That's just crazy! They're really nice in tight spaces or if you have to do some overhead welding crawling under something. Also picked up some other welding cable to go with the Big 40 engine drive I got from the trailer shop. Some twin 2/0 home made booster cables and some longer #1 cable. I got it for $225. I was a little shocked it was only $75 less than the welder but still a fraction of the cost of new. Hopefully I can make a few bucks on my latest purchases. Every little bit helps.

 

[ozarkag]

Nice! I've got several BiLs that think that dialarc is the best farm welder out there.

 

[Welder Dave]

It and Lincoln Idealarcs but they are popular in a lot of smaller fab shops and schools or where there's no 3 phase power. I don't have any power at my property or else I did I'd probably keep it.

 

[HarleyHappy]

I just bought a Miller Syncrowave 250 to replace my 300 and currently have it tore apart as I’m getting very low amps using the remote.
Everything else works great but ripping my hair out with this one.

 

[56wrench]

I’ve had a couple of the DialArc’s and still have one. Its a DialArc 250HF also set up for tig and i bought it new in the mid 90’s. In my opinion they were/are great machines. It’ll still be worth something when i’m done with it in about 15 years-it still looks like new

 

[chidog]

Good old Dialarc, and no fancy circuit boards to have problems with, I like all the old school stuff.

P ? I thought I saw that with power factor correction it will actually load more when at idle (not welding) than with out it?

 

[Welder Dave]

That's what some claim but other's say you only pay for watts used so don't pay a lot extra when at idle on a standard power meter. If you have a demand power meter is when you'd pay more at idle. There's a bunch of complicated electrical formulas that somehow explain it. It's way over my head but instead of needing a 90 amp breaker, it will work on a 60 amp breaker or even a 50 amp if you weren't burning 3/16" rods. If you're worried about using more power, shut the machine off if you won't be welding for over 15 minutes.

I picked the welder up today and tried it out. It runs great and burns 3/16" 7018 really nice as well as 5/32" 6010. It has a 16' power cord and I could include either 20' or 25' cables. The other cable I bought has an extra set of cable with the plugs to fit a Dialarc. Maybe I should include a 25' stinger and 20' ground. Then I could have the same for the Big 40 I will be selling in the spring. The other cable is 2 25' lengths of 2/0 cable made up as booster cables. The 2/0 cable would go with the Big 40 but 25' isn't that long for a portable welder. I was thinking of adding the 20' and 25' #1 cables to the 25' 2/0 cables so the cables are a decent length. Another thought is to keep a set of the #1 cable so I have some long booster cables. Hmm, decisions, decisions...

 

[HarleyHappy]

Yep, the Power Correction sucks ass unless you’re welding almost full duty cycle.
That’s one of the reasons I’m replacing my Syncrowave 300 with the 250.
The 300 has the PCF and at idle it’s clamping 30 amps.
I got the new Syncrowave up and running yesterday and at idle it’s drawing 11 amps. Big difference.
Now I gotta sell the 300. lol
Thinking of putting a thermal fuse in and make the cooling fan, on demand but not sure it’s worth it at 11 amps.
GD clamp meter started giving me issues yesterday with the digital readout.
I have another one but this one’s been my favorite for 20 years because of the thinner clamps.

 

[chidog]

Yeah not all of us are electric supplied up to feed a power factor correction. I run a 300 Dial arc on a 50 amp breaker so ??? Yeah can't go top current with it but, I can use it. And like Harley Happy says about it sucking up 30 amps at idle, how can you not be paying for that? The power formula is P=IE !

 

[Welder Dave]

Standard input amps is 90. With PFC is 68 amps but I think a 60 amp breaker would be fine considering the duty cycle is only 30% at 250 amps. A 50 would work for most people unless they want to burn a lot of 3/16" rods. If doing a lot of welding at a time, the PFC's would save on power but would use more if the machine was idling for long periods. Unless someone was using really long cables or it was hard to get to the machine, turning it off between welding periods would save on power. If someone was using it in their garage and had typical 100 amp service the PFC could be a good feature if someone was using appliances in the house so they wouldn't trip the main breaker. PFC smooths out fluctuating power as well from what I've been reading. It is what it is but shouldn't make much difference selling it.

 

[Old Doug]

I think i still have an extra Miller Dialarc . I need to get it dug out and sell it.

 

[HarleyHappy]

I keep upgrading my welders like my bikes, lol
In the new house I built, I wired my 250 HF Dialarc with an 80 amp welder and replaced that with my new to me 300 Syncrowave and didn’t realize it had the PCF and used it on a big stick job and was using it enough so didn’t want to keep shutting off as wanted it cool.
Job was 3 days and when wife got electric bill, it was double what we usually run.
Put a clamp on it and started looking for another welder.
Picked up this clean Syncrowave 250 for a grand. Nice unit.

 

[Welder Dave]

PFC uses less power when you're welding but if you were doing a lot of welding over 3 days, you'd notice it on your power bill anyway. PFC uses about 24 amps at idle not the same as when welding. Wouldn't need to cool off more than 10 minutes, even 5 minutes would be sufficient but you wouldn't want to be turning it off and on every 5 minutes when you were fabricating something. I've read of people disconnecting the PFC or having it where they're only used when welding. Would be interesting to make a basic comparison between no PFC and PFC over an hour at say 40% of the time welding. It's very difficult to stick weld over 60% unless you're doing long continuous welds. 90 amps welding and about 4.5 idle vs 68 amps welding and 24 idle. At 50% seems like they would be comparable but I could be way off. I'm aching too much and it's too much for me to try and figure out today.

 

[HarleyHappy]

I don’t really stick weld below 100 amps unless I’m running farmer rod for a **** fix or 3/32 7018 and will run that right at 100 amps.
You are correct about the duty cycle.
The days of me burning 70 lbs in a day are gone, too much work.
Lol
Think the most I ever ran was 90 lbs in one day with my old Red Seal rebuilding a chipper the was all worn out inside.
Crappy job.
I have welded so much that unless it’s for fixing something or a fab job, I hate it. First job out of HS was running big 800 amp welders running sub arc for LN tanks and man holes with a mig root pass at about 250 amps.
Grinding the welds, forearms still look like a roofer after 40 years.

 

[digger doug]

Arrange a rotary switch to put more/less of the PF caps in/out.
label it for what amperage you have the welder set for.

 

[Welder Dave]

How would you figure how much of the caps you need? I've been reading a lot about PFC's and there is no definitive answer on whether they actually run your power bill way up at idle. Some say once they're charged they feed power back to the input line so aren't drawing a lot of power. Reading higher amps doesn't translate into using power like when welding. It's really confusing. One guy said he checked his power meter with his PFC welder on and the meter still turned really slow like it normally does. I think turning the welder off if you won't be welding for awhile is the simplest solution. If someone only welds occasionally it won't make a lot of difference.

 

[Old Doug]

I wish the internet would have been available to me back when i was building a portable with a airplane generator . It worked and i used it alot but it needed more ways to control it.

 

[cfherrman]

On electricity you have to have volts and amps to draw out watts, most of the time you have volts but no amps so your not drawing power, but I'm sure it could be the other way around.

 

[digger doug]

How would you figure how much of the caps you need? I've been reading a lot about PFC's and there is no definitive answer on whether they actually run your power bill way up at idle. Some say once they're charged they feed power back to the input line so aren't drawing a lot of power. Reading higher amps doesn't translate into using power like when welding. It's really confusing. One guy said he checked his power meter with his PFC welder on and the meter still turned really slow like it normally does. I think turning the welder off if you won't be welding for awhile is the simplest solution. If someone only welds occasionally it won't make a lot of difference.

You calibrate it by measuring the amperage draw, for different output settings, and then put marks on the rotary switch.

 

[digger doug]

On electricity you have to have volts and amps to draw out watts, most of the time you have volts but no amps so your not drawing power, but I'm sure it could be the other way around.

It involves Eli...."Eli the Ice Man"
E leads I in an inductor
I leads E in a capacitor.
Power factor.