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bobcat t300 how to overide defeat safety bar switch?

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by douglasco, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    I finally got sick of it today, and cut the wires to the switch to splice them together, that didn't work, so i busted the switch trying to get it out, only to find out its some kind of magnetic switch which I guess is I couldn't bypass it with the wires. Raised the cab, found the parking brake and successfully unlocked it by giving it 12volts. Found the two solenoids that locked the pedals(right where the pushrods go into the valve block, and over rode that the same way. They seem to take alot of juice, so not sure its suppose to be 12volts. anyways, that unlocked the pedals but there is apparently one more valve somewhere because the loader is not operating. Its trying to, can hear it straining, but its hitting another valve. By this time i was really pissed off and wanted to bury an engineer next to a lawyer, so i just scooped it up with the excavator and dumped it aside. Anybody know where the other valve is? And is there a way to defeat it, if i hadn't destroyed the switch? I guess take it off and tape it together.
     
  2. Turbo21835

    Turbo21835 Senior Member

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    I feel sorry for the guy that has to fix all the wiring after they power wash your guts off this machine.
     
  3. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    Are you the owner of this machine ? Are you the only one that runs it ?
     
  4. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    With all due respect, legal liability implications compels me to not tell you how to defeat the safety bar switch and other various safety devices of your machine. :)
     
  5. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    With all due respect, everytime one of us chooses to bow down or bend over, it gives the lawyer the audacity to go an inch further in. I prefer(and have a lot more respect for) this kind of disclaimer: If you do this, you will most likely be injured or killed. If you sue me I will simply kill you, your family and anyone around you that i think might try to revenge your death. I don't have time for lawsuits....here is the answer:


    This is a personal machine, nobody else operates it. Besides, seriously? You call that a safety feature? Thanks for the help.
     
  6. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    No, I'm being serious douglasco, I've worked on Bobcats and other machines for years, these safety devices are there to protect you from the machine having a mind of its own. It's no slander to you or your capabilities. It's just the fact the machine has no brain. And when you disable these devices you're taking away what little brain it has. I feel you're frustration with the machine being a PITA, but you really need to get it fixed proper. Again, no disrespect to you, I'm just imploring you to watch out for you. :)
     
  7. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply. So i have another problem. I have another t300 that is in great condition. When I put the bar down and enable the controls, the machine will drive, and the loader trys to operate but can't. I've been trying to diagnose the problem, and see that the two solenoids on the front of the valve block for the work functions are good. I'm guessing there is another solenoid somewhere that is shorted out. Can you tell me where that might be so i can properly fix it?
     
  8. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    I think we have a pretty strong "safety culture" here at HEF, as evidenced by the replies so far, and it really goes beyond lawyers and legal liability. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody seems to be able to come up with the answer you're looking for now... :beatsme
     
  9. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    Sheep culture is more like it. But I understand thats just human nature. An idiot hurts himself, is selfish or prideful enough to hire a lawyer, sues the company, the company decides whether the bad PR/probablility/payout is enough to merit a design change or worst case, a recall. An engineer comes up with his best guess for the cheapest solution possible. The customer is convinced into upgrading to a new machine thru engineered obsolesce of the old one or just thru marketing gimmicks. Now he is stuck with more electronics and less machine. Safety engineering is maybe like what volvo started. American sheep safety is more of the instance that your seatbelt in your car is no good if your seat is reclined because you still get ejected or end up in a ball under the dash. But you won't see any 5point harnesses or even a big obnoxious warning sign about it because its bad for business. Speaking of which if this safety misnomer was such a science, and even HE operators need to be reminded to lock themselves in b4 the vehicle will function, don't you think those fancy automatic seatbelts in some cars that ride on the track when you shut the door would have been mandatory in all cars by now?

    But then again, I realize that sheep need a Shepard. Dead sheep aren't too useful to society..... Well thats not true, but they aren't pleasant for the other sheep to look at. If you know the solution, please pm me. For proof i'm more of a Shepard then a sheep see my other thread: http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?p=256882#post256882
     
  10. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    douglasco, your slamming of us being safety conscience and having a desire to cover our arse is getting a little over the top and tiresome. I've looked over your other posts and you seem to be a very intelligent and self driven person. But your completely missing the point on this safety issue. This is not about you. You are probably more than competent to work with a machine that has safety devices modified. But the part your not considering is this is "the internet". Once anyone posts an answer of how to disable safety devices on the internet, it's in writing, it's permanent, it's there for all the world to see. And like I said, this ain't about you, it's about some jerkwad dingdong that would read that post, perform the action, get injured, then do a Google search on ATCO. Next thing I know, I get served some legal papers. Again...it ain't about you. It's a big internet world. Therefore, I choose my words carefully. :cool:

    About your T300, there's a black solenoid in the mid of the main hyd control valve, set a little below center of valve body. That's the loader valve hyd lock out solenoid. :)
     
  11. Part sman

    Part sman Well-Known Member

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    Well said ATCO.
     
  12. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    I think ATCO missed an important part though.

    Think of all the old, experienced hands from years and years ago who got hurt by equipment that never had safety system installed at all, and cite some figures to convince me that machines aren't safer today. Safety systems don't exist just for the worst operator--they exist to protect the best operator on his worst day.

    There are lots of guys in the graveyard, and some permanently sidelined for lack of spare parts (our manufacturer really is awful about parts support from the factory), because they got complacent about safety and safety systems. Guys with tons of experinence can still get injured because they think they know better. A guy with little experience who starts out with that attitude already has two stikes against him...
     
  13. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    Review of OSHA's Integrated Management Information System (IMIS) reveals that between 1997 and 2007, 100 accidents were recorded specifically involving skid-steer loaders. The deliberate bypassing of safety features (such as seatbelts and control interlock systems) was identified as the direct cause of 20% of these incidents, with all but one resulting in a fatality. Three cases are described below:

    Case 1:

    An employee was working alone, operating a skid-steer loader for "fine grading" or smoothing out dirt to provide the final contouring around a new home that was nearing completion. While operating the skid-steer loader, one of the bucket bolt pins, which connects the loader arm to the bucket, fell out. The employee dismounted the vehicle with the engine still running, manually lowered the lap bar safety device, and operated the hydraulic controls from outside the vehicle. The employee was attempting to realign the loader arm hole with the bucket hole and reinsert the bucket bolt pin. In the process, he was trapped between the bucket and the body of the skid-steer loader and was crushed. The employee was found in a position that allowed him to operate the controls from outside the vehicle with the bucket bolt pin and a large hammer nearby.

    Upon inspecting the skid-steer loaders on this job site, the following conditions were noted:
    The interlock control system was disabled on the unit involved in the accident. This system was intended to prevent the loader’s controls from operating unless the operator was in the proper operating position. The absence of the operator's weight should have deactivated an electronic switch under the seat that allows the loader controls to function when the lap bar is also in a lowered position. The system ensures that the engine stops when the operator leaves the seat of the skid-steer loader or attempts to lower the lap bar to operate the loader controls from outside of the skid-steer loader.
    Interlock control systems on other skid-steer loaders on site had also been disabled or were not functioning properly. This condition allowed the operator to activate the loader's controls with the seat bar in the raised position.
    Backup alarms did not work on some units.
    Seatbelts had been removed from the skid-steer loaders.
    The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act) (Section 5(a)(1)).

    Case 2:

    An employee was ordered by his company to repair a leak in the hydraulic slave cylinder of a skid-steer loader. He drove the skid-steer loader into the warehouse and began the repair. He bypassed the safety bar by jamming it into the interlocks without being seated in the cab. He then started the skid-steer loader and raised the bucket over the cab. Upon exiting the cab, his foot inadvertently pressed the down pedal for the bucket. The bucket came down and trapped him between the lift and the cab. He then hit the left side lever, causing the skid-steer loader to move in reverse. It crashed into a parked forklift and he was killed.

    Upon investigation, the three causes of the accident were identified as:
    Employee's intentional bypassing of the safety features of the skid-steer loader to perform maintenance,
    Failure to use an approved lift arm support device, and
    Improper employee training on operating, servicing, or maintaining the skid-steer loader according to the manufacturer's instructions.
    The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the OSH Act (Section 5(a)(1)).

    Case 3:

    An employee at a tractor implement dealership was cleaning debris from a wash bay using a skid-steer loader. This particular skid-steer loader was equipped with a manual seat bar as well as a pressure switch in the seat to detect the presence of an operator. The operator was able to leave the cab to wash the skid-steer loader bucket while it was still operational. The bucket was left sitting on its nose which prevented the loader arms from resting against the body of the vehicle as it was designed to do. This position made it difficult to enter and exit the cab. As the employee attempted to get back into the cab, he slipped and fell face-first into the cab seat. The loader arms dropped and caught him between the body of the skid-steer loader and the loader arms, and he was killed.

    The two major contributing factors to this accident were:
    Employee's intentional bypassing of the safety systems of the skid-steer loader, and
    Improper employee training on the safety features associated with the skid-steer loader. "On-the-job" training did not include a review of the operator's manual.
    The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the OSH Act (Section 5(a)(1)).

    Conclusion

    Properly maintained and functioning seatbelts and control interlock systems are critical to the safe operation of skid-steer loaders. Field reports have shown injuries and fatalities can occur by operating skid-steer loaders with one or both of these safety systems bypassed, disabled, or improperly maintained.
     
  14. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    Osha only knows of 10 skidsteer accidents per year.....hmmmm. Glad they are your authority. I'm not taking the bar off (sometimes I sit on it so i can have a better view:pointhead) But I am making my own attachments, and using it for many other purposes. I bet if i really thought you guys weren't genetically :Banghead, i would sit here and write up at least 50 scenarios, where the stupid switch is more dangerous. Ever heard of a seatbelt killing someone, it happens alot. Not saying that its probable. But believe it or not, there are some instances when its smart NOT to wear your seatbelt.
     
  15. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    >>>
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  16. motrack

    motrack Charter Member

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    Over riding safty systems is just DUMB. This coming from someone with 35yrs in the equipment business who has seen the results of some jackleg disabling safety equipment.

    Buy yourself a set of service manuals with wiring schematics and they will provide all the info you need to override anything you heart desires and no one here will be sued by your family over you death.

    Some guys just have to learn the hard way.
     
  17. qball

    qball Senior Member

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    wow, i have seen some goofy posters, but you, douglasco, take the cake.
     
  18. cutting edge

    cutting edge Senior Member

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    I've personally had the displeasure of inspecting machines that have killed their operators.

    Every single time,a safety feature had been bypassed.The worst one was an owner operator of 32 years,who one day slipped on the way out of his machine. The mini excavator kept spinning around until his carcass was eventually torn in half and enough weight fell away from the left pilot lever.

    Do your family a favor and have a pro fix your damn machine.
     
  19. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Well, with your attitude and self proclaimed lack of equipment experience, you are in the running for a top "10" spot this year...:cool2
     
  20. douglasco

    douglasco Active Member

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    You guys should google "lathe accidents". Sometimes common safety sense just comes with the job.
     
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