Bobcat 863 G suddenly stopped. Idoit light reads ( ! ). Please can anyone help?

[choober]

I have a Bobcat 863G built in 2002 with 1825 hours on it. Last night it suddenly just stopped running. The instrument panel illuminated this ( ! ). Which in my manual states that it is a general trouble for engine or hydraulics. It only cranks over for a few seconds then locks out on the instrument panel trouble ( ! ). I just did a complete PM on the machine and everything is where it should be. I did the self diagnostic(holding the light button) and it shows NONE. I have read in this forum about problems with the fuel pick up and squeeze bulb. Is it normal for it to lock out the control panel for a fuel problem? It does not seem like it would. It appears to be protecting itself from major damage. Any suggestions? Any help would be most appreciated.

 

[willie59]

That wouldn't be a problem caused by pickup tube or fuel lines, those problems don't make it stop cranking and give you that warning. It may be a problem with something like an engine oil pressure switch, engine temp switch, hyd return pressure switch. Not really sure, it's going to take someone who knows the Bobcat electronics better than me to advise you on this one.

 

[choober]

Update: I just checked the fuse block and found a 30 AMP fuse blown. The manual designates it to be the Fuel Shutoff. Not sure why this would appear as a warning for the engine or hydralics? I drained some water out of the fuel filter put in new fuse and it is still cranks over for a few seconds and locks out. What would cause the fuse to blow? Bad fuel pump? Do I have to disconnect the battery in order to clear the trouble to attempt to try and at least see if it will run for a short time with the new fuse?

 

[willie59]

Update: I just checked the fuse block and found a 30 AMP fuse blown. The manual designates it to be the Fuel Shutoff. Not sure why this would appear as a warning for the engine or hydralics? I drained some water out of the fuel filter put in new fuse and it is still cranks over for a few seconds and locks out. What would cause the fuse to blow? Bad fuel pump? Do I have to disconnect the battery in order to clear the trouble to attempt to try and at least see if it will run for a short time with the new fuse?

Two things that come to mind that would make the fuse blow would be fault in wiring or fuel shutoff solenoid has crapped out. When Syncro Start solenoids go bad, they generally short out internally and will pop the fuse. After you put a new fuse in it and tried to crank it, did you go back and check the new fuse you installed to see if it was blown? You might try disconnecting the wiring harness to the solenoid and see if that allows the engine to crank. The Bobcat ECM monitors a number of things, I suppose it's possible that it can sense something is drawing excessive current that is blowing a fuse, and that might be why it's locking out the starter. Just a wild guess.

 

[willie59]

I happened to remeber the 863G has the Deutz engine, it won't have a Syncro Start solenoid, but it's still electric solenoid control, just a bit different. Same thing still applies; if the solenoid shorts out, it will pop the fuse.

 

[tacbob]

Also with your codes button, you need to press the button straight after it has shut you down, don't turn your machine off and then on again. It should be able to pin point you in the rite direction...

 

[choober]

Update: The fuse I put in was used and had corrosion on it. I put in a new fuse. Plus there was a small in-line fuse to the idiot lights that was blown. It no longer is locking itself out. It now just keeps cranking over but won't start. Okay, let me sum it up. Machine suddenly stopped running, main power to idiot lights blew, 30 amp fuel shut-off fuse blew, replaced fuses, now it just keeps cranking over and wont fire. What is the fuel shut-off? Is it a safety device in-line on the supply line? Where is it located? Is there a way to trouble shoot the part with a meter? Probably a normally closed device that when energized it opens?

 

[willie59]

The fuel shut off, although confusing by description, is actually what allows the engine to run. It would be more proper to call it "fuel enable". On this type of injection system, the fuel is normally in the "shut off" position. It requires "pulling a lever" of sorts to allow fuel to flow through the injection pump to allow the engine to run. On your machine it's done with an electric solenoid to "pull the lever". This is all a lot easier to check on a Kubota in a Bobcat, not so easy on a Deutz. The question we have to ask is "what blew the fuses in the first place?" Obviously, something went wrong. It's possible that the fuel solenoid shorted out, blew the fuse, and is now an open circuit, which is why it hasn't blown the fuse you replaced. I don't know how this could explain the in-line fuse being blown though. You could have a wiring harness that has been rubbed by something and has caused an electrical short. It could be just the fuel solenoid has crapped out. It's hard to troubleshoot electrical problems without looking at the patient that is sick. It would be swell if we could disconnect the fuel solenoid and see if we can get it running, I just can't remember how to do that on the Deutz. When you open the rear door, the "front" of the engine is to your right. Look at that end of the engine on the side of the engine. You should see a small wiring harness going to a square plastic connector about 1 inch square with a screw in the center of it, that would be the electrical connection to the fuel solenoid. Thats the area you need to work in. If I remember, you have to take some things apart right there, remove the solenoid, then you can access the lever that the solenoid pulls to activate fuel delivery and pull it in manually to start engine. It's been a while since I've done one of these things, can't tell you much more than that. If you can disconnect the solenoid, and somehow manage to get it running, and it doesn't blow anymore fuses, chances are you simply have a failed solenoid coil. I hope it's that simple for ya'.

 

[TALLRICK]

The Deutz will start and run even if the Bobcat electronics totally crap out. The shutoff solenoid moves the fuel pump rail to a position that shuts off fuel flow- stopping the engine. A mechanical governor sets the speed by moving the fuel rail based on rpm's. If you remove the solenoid, which is two 8 or 10mm bolts you can stick your finger in the hole and see if the fuel rail moves. Another trick is to crank the engine with an injector line off and see if fuel shoots out. If not you know it's a stop solenoid or bind in the fuel rail. If you do end up replacing the stop solenoid don't throw the old one out- my Bobcat doesn't have one and I have the hole blocked with a piece of aluminum with an O-ring on it. The previous owner rigged a choke cable to the manual shut off lever and I would like to fill the hole for the solenoid with something I can rebuild and not spend a fortune on a new one.

 

[choober]

Update: Problem solve! Yes, it was the fuel solenoid. A ridiculiously expensive fuel solenoid. Total of $384 with a pigtail to adapt to my harness because Duetz upgraded the solenoid and changed the plug end. Thank-you everyone for your help.

 

[TALLRICK]

Now you know why I am looking for a broken one to play with rather than buy a new one. Don't discard the bad one!

 

[mrfixitpaul]

Tallrick, Is yours a G series? I'd figure that if it was the computer would not allow it to crank if it didn't detect the fuel solenoid ??

 

[TALLRICK]

Tallrick, Is yours a G series? I'd figure that if it was the computer would not allow it to crank if it didn't detect the fuel solenoid ??

This is a 1998 model with a regular keyswitch and a BICS so I doubt it is the same. I can start the engine and only have to flip the lever to shut it down. On a G series it still has the same Deutz so it's the same process to jump the starter at the solenoid and get the engine started.

 

[bigmac5]

Have a 1999 863 with fuel problem also. Had the locat Bobcat dealer work on it and said it needed a new filter. Had him replace but still having same problem. Runs until the squeeze bulb flattens then shuts off. Any suggestions?

 

[mrfixitpaul]

If the bulb is flattening out, probably the fuel pickup screen is plugged. Follow the fuel line back from the bulb to the tank to be sure you have the right hose (other one is return line). Pry fitting out of grommett and see what if it is plugged. Another thought....make sure the fuel cap is venting...see of bulb expands when cap is loosened.

If you find pick-up plugged you may want to drain tank out...plug and grommett behind the 3 bolt cover underneath machine.

 

[bigmac5]

Is there somewhere to get a schematic for the fuel tank/lines. Someone else thought it could be a cracked pickup line? Thanks for the help also.

 

[bigmac5]

Thanks for the help. Will check as suggested. Do you know where I would be able to get a schematic for fuel tank/lines for 1999 863? Normally have the local dealer work on our machines but tight on money.

 

[mrfixitpaul]

I guess for a schematic you'd need the service manual but I wouldn't buy one just for that. There are only 2 fuel lines from the tank, supply and return. The rest is all visible in the engine area. Good Luck

 

[TALLRICK]

Also some people just drill a new hole in the fuel tank, stick in a new pickup with a grommet. On my fuel tank I removed as the engine was already out and the drain holes in the machine were clogged so I took the opportunity to clean them out and paint the machine. If you suspect a fuel pickup problem do what I do to test it- use a hand or electric fuel pump to fill a container and see what happens. A broken fuel pickup will have no fuel flow or fuel with bubbles, and a clogged pickup hardly flows if at all.

 

[Nate81-773]

Hey guys,
I am new to the forum and am kind of desperate. I have a 773 g with the naturally aspirated kubota and I am having some electrical issues as well. I can barely get it to start when I jimmy all of the relays and once it starts the traction lock will not disengage. I have tried cleaning and reseating all fuses and relays and am going to replace the starter relay but am at a loss with the traction lock. Any ideas would be extremely helpful. It is a 1999 machine with 2100 hours and we have used the tar out of it and love it. We maintain it pretty darn well and this is our first major problem after having owned it for four years.
Nate