BAD miss, may have major trouble! 1967 580ck. Roughest backhoe in captivity.

[packratc]

Ran out of fuel. Bled the system 100 times or 15. Used ether several times. Burnt up starter. Had injectors tested & replaced two. I'm an idiot! Finally replaced fuel filters & it started. Lots of blow by. Running on 3 cylinders. Number one seems to be the one not firing. It's one of the older injectors. Big holes in old muffler. Seems like fuel is building up and then firing and flames can be seen in the muffler. Sounds like shotgun going off over and over. Let it run pretty fast for a long time and kept bleeding injectors. Smoke everywhere. Fun thing is that it ran out of fuel coming out of a half-dry pond. It has no brakes so it nestled itself near the bottom. We're having rain quite often. It's in red clay at about 20% grade, sideways. Can't pull its self out of the hole. Did I tell you that I'm an idiot? Give me your best shots. I deserve them. I don't know what elso to do except have that injector checked again. Don't have a compression gage. Where's the cheapest place to get a rebuild kit. Is it a bear to put in liners, pistons, rings & bearings at 20% grade in the red clay mud? Above saga has taken three weeks between rain and life. Thank you for your thoughts, prayers, and hopefully helpful advice. Packratc in Tennessee.

 

[alrman]

packratc - you are in a spot of bother aren't you......pictures will not do here - we want video for this one :tong
Is there a neighbour or a hire company that can give you a tow so you can get to work in a more civilized environment? I'm sure whatever it will cost will be worth it.
Sounds to me you have a compression problem - either valves or head gasket - only a wild guess. A compression test would cetainly be in order.

 

[packratc]

Thanks, alrman, for the reply. Will have to study up on how to do a compression test. Used to have an old compression gage with a rubber push-in-type adapter that I used for a old flathead 1000 years ago. How high does the guage have to read to test this diesel? What I'm worried about is whether I've holes a piston or have broken rings from the ether.Thanks, packratc

 

[alrman]

They are supposed to be around 400psi while cranking - a rubber tipped 'push in' style tester will not do the job. Best & safest to bolt one in!
Maybe the shop that tested your injectors can help?

 

[packratc]

Thanks again for the reply. Makes sense. What does a bolt on compression guage bolt to? I'll for one on line or to rent. The injector place is 50 miles away in Nashville. Packratc

 

[willie59]

You would remove the injector and fit a compression tester adapter in the injector hole packratc. Did this machine miss on #1 cyl before running out of fuel or after?

 

[2stickbill]

I knew a guy had injector rebuilt and they set them to high and the tractor did some of these things.

 

[packratc]

Thanks for the replies. It was running fine until the fuel ran to the back of the tank and it died. If I had had sense enough to change the fliters right then and filled it up with fuel it probably would have cranked right up. That is if the rust and mud hadn't already gotten to the injectors or whatever. The injector that is missing is not a new one but it is one they checked and it popped and sprayed correctly. I'm wondering if I could have broken a valve spring by using ether and it firing at the wrong time. Right now my plan is to start it tomorrow or Monday and see if it does the same. Maybe take the valve cover off and see if all looks normal. (Probably can't tell a thing.) Then take the two old injectors out and have them retested, and while they're out try to do a compression check. My worst fears are that I've washed down the cylinders with ether, broken rings, and need jugs and pistons.Thanks,packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc, When it rains it pours!! Sorry I couldn't help but say it. Harbor Freight has a diesel engine compression testing kit for $24.99 plus shipping. Maybe Willie or alrman can take a look at it and see if it will work for your application. Here is a link to it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-diesel-engine-compression-tester-93644.html
Like they said , you have to do a compression test first. Then post your findings back in this thread. I have to say you are not an idiot. No need for you to beat yourself up about what happened. Your situation can happen to anyone. None of us on the forum will be taking any, what you call shots at you about your problems. We are all here to help one another

 

[packratc]

Thanks, Tinkerer. If the Harbor Freight tool gets good comments, I'll own it. Harbor Freight is only 5 miles from the injector shop. Hope the injectors come out the second time easier than they did the first. A couple of them were bears. Made it all the more fun in the mud. It's really funny that this ol' hoe broke down in the mud hole. I bought the hoe to do several things, but mostly to help me make this mud hole into a pond. I had already spent over 5K with backhoes, dump trucks and dozers on this wanna-be pond. That's over several years. All's I want is to raise $30.00 worth of old muddy catfish. Thanks again, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Maybe take the valve cover off and see if all looks normal. (Probably can't tell a thing.) Then take the two old injectors out and have them retested, and while they're out try to do a compression check.

Not a bad idea to pull the tappet cover. May have spat a push rod.
Re: the compression testing kit that tinkerer linked - the dearer $160 kit looks like it has the right adaptor.
You could try thabull's broom handle trick ........ I can't believe I just said that........ I really am a professional ....... honest.

edit - could buy the cheaper test kit & an adaptor from snap on - http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1430&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
OR - You could make an adaptor from your old injector??? Are you any good at brazing?

 

[dwloop]

If it started this all at once, I agree with alrman I would pull the valve cover and check the pushrods and rockers.

Dave

 

[willie59]

All the above is good advice, would probably does these checks myself, but it seems running out of fuel was where it went downhill. It's not wise to run a machine out of fuel primarily because pretty much any diesel tank will have junk, water/dregs, in the bottom of the tank. When tank has plenty of fuel this junk pretty much stays at bottom of tank. Occasionally a bit of it will suck up the pick up tube and get trapped in filters. When fuel in tank is depleted, it will suck up a heavy dose of this junk, maybe enough water and debris to slip through the filter before engine dies. At this point the injection pump and injectors are fouled up. You replace your injectors, but is there a possibility the water and dregs have fouled up the delivery valve for #1 injector? Just a thought.

 

[packratc]

Thank you, thank you, for all the replies and thinking aloud. Afraid I'm not familiar with the broom stick test. Also don't know where the delivery valve for #1 injector is. I'm afraid it's in the pump. Clarify if you will. I can braze well enough. However the old injectors went to the shop as trade-ins on the rebuilt ones. Don't have one to braze an adapter to. Are you saying that the cheap diesel compression test kit from Harbor freight won't do the job? Thanks, Packratc

 

[willie59]

I'm just considering all possibilities pacratc. Delivery valve is part of injection pump. Haven't really seen it before, but I'm just wondering if running out of fuel fouled up the delivery valve in the injection pump for #1 injector.

 

[wildhorse trnr]

Definitely pull the valve cover and check there. Also, did you crack the line for #1 and make sure you are getting plenty of fuel there? If you can swap the injector in question with another that is known to work and see if the problem goes to the other cylinder thats a quick way on some of the older units. A compression test would help in the troubleshooting for sure. If you had alot of trash in the bottom of your tank it can also affect the lift pump, but since you have proper function on the other cylinders that should not be the case. It will surprise you what contaminants can do to an injection system. Doing an overhaul in a pond is not ideal, but I and I am sure alot of the other field techs on here have done things in less than ideal conditions before and I am sure we will again, LOL.

 

[packratc]

I guess I could swap the two injectors and see if the miss stayed with #1 cylinder. If it goes to cylinder #2, then it's the injector. I'll take off the valve cover first and watch it run through the oil and smoke. I'd still like to do a compression check. Thanks again, Willie59. Packratc

 

[willie59]

Swap injectors? Now that's a quick/easy plan packratc.

But keep in mind, still doesn't confirm problem lies in injection pump. Tricky problem you have there. :yup

 

[caterpillarmech]

I have seen either do some bad stuff. I could not figure out why my 3056 would not fire when it had fuel at the injector. The operartor had bent all of the push rods and broke the crank!!!. Pull the valve cover and check them. You should still be fine on the engine if it did not back fire when cranking. Pull it out of the fishing hole first though. Swapping the injectors is a great idea too. Let us know how it comes out.

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc; I found this bar to be pretty handy on injectors. Don't get force them too hard or you will bend the injector. It is commonly called a ladies foot bar. They can be purchased about anyplace that sells tools ($3.00 at Harbor Freight ).