Another undercarriage question.

[TimT]

I recently bought a 450C "1979" .... I had the JD customer guy come out and do an assessment on the undercarriage. The rails/chains have a little life in them, sprockets also, idlers, top rollers. The bottom rollers are shot. They all still turn and don't leak, but I want to get some life out of my chains/pads as a unit. I will only put a few hundred hours on the machine over time. Just for my own projects.
I pulled the rock guards off the right side today, and the five bottom rollers. All came off no problem, Question here is if I do replace all ten bottom rollers will it help?. It seems to me the shot rollers are causing the pin boss wear and rails/chains running off center on the idlers. My thought is this...the "new rollers" might be the cheapest way to get the hours I want out of it. I don't picture the chains wrecking the rollers even though they are worn. I have a source of very good used rollers off another machine.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

I have a source of very good used rollers off another machine.

I think you answered your own question. (grins)

 

[Shimmy1]

As long as there is enough height left in the links so the replacement rollers are not going to run on the pin bosses, sounds like a solid plan. Keep in mind though that low link height could cause new rollers to contact pin bosses in extreme cases.

 

[TimT]

Thanks Guys, Thats what I was hoping to hear. My guess is that the "new rollers" will have enough meat to clear the pin bosses... even if they don't it will add some wear time to the chain. I understand that with the after market prices of complete chains on these smaller machines it makes no sense to turn them, just a lot of expensive work. The dealer said they have even pulled links to get more wear out of the smaller chains... replace them when they break or won't stay on anymore... if I do that, i'll do sprockets also.But 500 hrs of use will last me for years.

 

[Shimmy1]

Probably unlikely on rails this small, but sometimes there isn't any point in turning pins and bushings because the links are hashed out.

 

[lantraxco]

Used to be common to see roller flanges trimmed with a torch... run 'er til the rails come off......

 

[Labparamour]

Interesting to see what used to be been done in years past- building up rollers and sprockets with weld, etc. and able to successfully keep the machine working.
My understanding is you'd pull a link when you run out of adjustment on your idler due to chain being stretched. Also, thought I understood that you might wear out new components (sprocket) running them on worn components (stretched out chain).
I've heard if your sprocket is jumping on the chain it can hammer your finals.
Unless hats happening, sounds like you can probably just keep runner her as is while assembling your replacement parts....

DB

 

[duchek]

On my D6R LGP that we recently purchased the dealer told me that there were about 1000 hours left on the under carriage. They just put new segments on and also hard surfaced all 4 idlers with a mig. The hard surfacing disappeared in under 40 hours. It looked excellent but was a lot of work for nothing.

 

[Welder Dave]

Doesn't sound like it was hardfacing, just mild steel Mig wire.

 

[TimT]

I can see welding up bigger machines, or if you like to weld, but my price for a set of chains/rails, ten rollers, two drive sprockets and all the pad bolts and nuts was under 3 grand, new rollers are less than 100 bucks each, seems to me to be a complete waste of many hours to weld up worn rollers or turn pins on 7-10 ton dozers unless you can do all the work yourself. No shop is cheap nowdays. Some very well equipped contractors don't even bother with partial fixes, just replace the whole undercarriage on production machines.I cant see trimming the rollers, they are single flange a worn out big time. The new ones should keep the chains in place better, and avoid some sprocket wear too.

 

[John C.]

I haven't seen anything smaller than a D8 get pins and bushings turned in quite a few years. Every hour you can add running the old stuff is money in your pocket. I've trimmed more than my share of bottom rollers to get a few hundred more hours out of the chains. Just cut off enough so the flanges don't run on the track link pin bosses.

 

[redneckracin]

I can see welding up bigger machines, or if you like to weld, but my price for a set of chains/rails, ten rollers, two drive sprockets and all the pad bolts and nuts was under 3 grand, new rollers are less than 100 bucks each, seems to me to be a complete waste of many hours to weld up worn rollers or turn pins on 7-10 ton dozers unless you can do all the work yourself. No shop is cheap nowdays. Some very well equipped contractors don't even bother with partial fixes, just replace the whole undercarriage on production machines.I cant see trimming the rollers, they are single flange a worn out big time. The new ones should keep the chains in place better, and avoid some sprocket wear too.

Where in the world did you get the 3k price and how are you getting rollers for $100 each? The Cheapest I could find aftermarket cheap chinese rollers for my 550 was $130 a piece that didn't even have an oil fill plug. Mother deere wanted over $250 for rebuildable rollers. I didn't even price out a complete undercarriage.

I haven't seen anything smaller than a D8 get pins and bushings turned in quite a few years. Every hour you can add running the old stuff is money in your pocket. I've trimmed more than my share of bottom rollers to get a few hundred more hours out of the chains. Just cut off enough so the flanges don't run on the track link pin bosses.

I don't think those are the same style rollers? The small deere rollers have a single outer flange design with the center of the rollers over the pins depressed.

 

[TimT]

Went today a few miles away to the local Used tractor parts guy and he wanted 85 dollars apiece for 450 bottom rollers, BUT they had sat outside for who knows how long.. while there I called my local JD dealer to see if they had my prices together.. I was equated 93 dollars each WITH shipping. A no brainer, I ordered the brand new rollers and all the bolts for them and the rock guards.. And yes they are single flange rollers. Empire Tractor Parts price for new rails, 10 rollers, sprockets and all the pad bolt hardware was $2,860 dollars without shipping...... My bet is the JD dealer could beat that too!!.... Sometimes the dealers are the lowest prices around... if they are Big and deal with the bigger aftermarket outfits. No one buys OEM undercarriage parts now days. Even Caterpillar has bargains.

 

[Welder Dave]

What brand?

 

[redneckracin]

I'd double check that they are oem rollers. JD says over 200 for new rollers and tractor zone is saying over $110. Just checked those prices a minute ago and took screen shots. If they are oem, that's a smoking deal.

 

[TimT]

I don't need nor will pay the double cost for OEM Rollers for a 1979 450C for home use.
I Don't know the aftermarket brand that the JD Dealer uses, I just ordered them. 93.00 each no shipping cost to the dealer. I will pick them up tomorrow, they just told me that came in today. The costs from Empire Tractor Parts are below...without shipping..

 

[old-iron-habit]

You done well. Now the fun begins. Don't forget, we like pictures. Be carefull, block it up good. Not sure how JD sprockets come off but Cat can be killers if you don't know what you are doing. Hope these are easy.

 

[Dickjr.]

Those prices look like 1980's , but that's ok if its decent stuff and your happy. I'm guessing 36 link dry chains? If so get them to throw in a box of ear plugs or ear muffs with a radio built in.

 

[redneckracin]

Man that's phenomenal, I didn't do nearly that well when I was rehabbing the 550 undercarriage. I was debating about doing track pads here sometime but I decided to hold off till my wallet recovers a little bit! Between tracksnteeth, tractorzone, and Mother deere I got it all back together but it sure had its bills. Anything you take apart, never-seize the hell out of it!

 

[JS300]

TimT, I think the aftermarket rollers will do just fine for home use. Not sure if this will help out or not but, last time I replaced a few bottom rollers on the dozer I couldn't get the bolts to break loose no matter how I tried. After breaking a few break over bars I took a torch and heated them a little and they came loose with ease. I didn't heat the bolt head instead heated the rail were the bolts threaded in. I was told by several folks this wasn't necessary but it worked for me.