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Allis Chalmers HD6 worth buying?

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by Jeff D., Nov 12, 2005.

  1. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    MN.
    Does anyone have experience with,or information about,an Allis Chalmers HD6 dozer?I'm contemplating purchasing one,but don't have much experience with dozers,let alone ones of this vintage.I believe it is a 1966 model.It has a Buda diesel,rather than a Detroit.The owner said he put $2k in the undercarriage,and tracks,about 4 yrs ago.It has ROPS,a two way blade(with the arms outside the track),fires up quickly and runs smooth.Everything works,except the charging system.I suspect the generator(or alternator possibly).It has an operating weight just over 16,000 lbs.
    I did a search on the Buda engine,and found out they were "mostly" boat engines.The dozers general overall appearance is good,considering the age.
    He's asking $6500,and won't budge.I think this is on the high side,but if I can have the undercarriage verified by someone else to be in good shape,wear wise,and if these dozers are still serviceable,and not known to have "troubles",then possibly it may be worth that.
    Or,should I pass,save up more money,and go with something a little more modern?Older JD 450 perhaps,with more parts availability?Or something with 6way blade?
    I'm not planning on using a dozer regularly,but sometimes they sure come in handy,and this is a nice size,considering my trailer(10 ton deck over).
    Renting a dozer isn't my first choice,I prefer to own my equipment,I'm just funny that way.
    Thanks for any input!
     
  2. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    Ac Hd6.

    Hi, Jeff D.
    I have not personally had anything to do with the smaller AC crawlers. I ran an HD16 for a while and worked alongside HD21's on the same jobs.

    The bigger AC's seemed to have issues with transmissions and final drives, although not as bad as the bigger International machines. I don't remember hearing anything in that line about the smaller AC crawlers or track loaders.

    AC bought out Buda to get the engine manufacturing facility and they certainly worked OK in the HD16 that I operated.

    Definitely check the undercarriage before buying. If you don't have the necessary knowledge, find some-one who does to help, even if you have to pay them. It could well be cheap insurance.

    Hope this helps.

    You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
     
  3. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Thanks Deas,and also welcome to the forum.

    I haven't purchased a dozer yet,but I'm now leaning more towards the JD450.They seem to be plentyful around here,and I'm sure parts would be easier to get.

    I do have to say though,I was suprised at how many AC dozers I ran across while looking around.Apparently they were more popular than I'd imagined.I stopped into a place that sells used heavy equipment and asked them about the Allis's.The owner brought me out to look at an AC HD21.What a monster that thing was.He had it parked next to a Cat D9,and the Allis was even bigger.Not exactly what I was looking for,but interesting none the less.
     
  4. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    JD Vs AC

    Hi, Jeff D.
    I think it's a pretty safe bet that JD parts and service will be easier to get than AC. There is, as far as I am aware, no part of the original AC organisation left now and I think the earthmoving division was about the first to go, to Fiat.

    Happy hunting and thanks for the welcome.

    You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
     
  5. dirthog

    dirthog Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    heavy equipment mechanic
    Location:
    central pa
    ac parts

    most AC parts are still available for the older machines I know I work for a dealer and have for the last 33 years also if you saw a AC that was larger than a D9 it was a HD41 not a 21 which is smaller than a D9 closer in size to a D8
     
  6. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Senior Member

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    Dirthog,very interesting!!The particular dozer I was looking at is still available,but my interest had cooled due to the lack of responses,and not knowing about the availablity of parts.

    You say parts are still available?How about for the Buda diesel?Have you worked on any HD-6's,or do you know anything about their dependability,or their values?Any more info would be great!

    I'm not looking for a dozer to put to work alot,but I'd like to put a road in across the property(approx 1/4mile)and use if needed in my part time work for a contractor.

    The AC dozer that I'd mentioned as a HD-21,I may have been wrong,but I remember it had a Detroit 2cycle motor( 6-71 or 8-71 probly).I think he did mention it was a HD-21,so it may have been a smaller Cat next to it(D-8).They were both WAY bigger than I was looking for though,so I didn't play real close attention.

    Thanks again for the response.
     
  7. dirthog

    dirthog Senior Member

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    Hd 6

    Yes I have worked on quite a few of them not lately though most of them now are owned by people who do there own work as our labor rate along with most larger dealers is high. They are a good old dozer and we had a lot of them out at one time. still can be very dependable but you must realise you are talking a 30 or so year old dozer. I don't think I would want to try to make a living with one though.
     
  8. 8-ball

    8-ball Member

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    when i was a kid 17 yrs old i ran a little hd-11 shoving out power line poles on a road job, and i worked for a company that had all ac equipment, hd16's all the way up to hd 21's. i prefer cat equipment but those old ac tractors did a pretty good job of hauling dirt on i-80 in 1963.:cool2
     
  9. wrenchbender

    wrenchbender Senior Member

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    I remember working on old HD-6's, HD-6G's and HD-5's it's been a while since I've even seen one now. But I still have a trans housing for an HD-6 just waiting on a home. If I remember correctly all the ones we worked on had the Detroits in them.
     
  10. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

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    thats only a little over 40 cents per pound man... :my2c
     
  11. DIYDAVE

    DIYDAVE Senior Member

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    A/C or Buda parts

    A lot of A-C engine parts interchange from ag to construction. I have an A-C dd grader that uses the 6-230 diesel engine. That motor was also used in WD 45 diesel tractors. If you can get a copy of Norm Swinford's book, A-C construction machinery, it has a list of which motors interchange from ag to construction.:waving :waving
     
  12. surfer-joe

    surfer-joe Senior Member

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    Allis Chalmers HD6

    Buda's were used everywhere, and were especially popular in the oilfields as utility engines on drilling rigs and pumping units. Fairly simple, very reliable, and they'd run on any type of fuel, properly set up. They were common on rock crushing and gravel screening plants, even asphalt plants and the old crawler-mounted concrete units used on the early interstates. Some are still working in the oil patch today on pump-jacks where electricity isn't available. Mostly running on natural gas right out of the well.

    A pal of my brothers had one that ran his crusher. It was 817 CI, gas, and started with a hand crank. Had a big magneto with plenty of snap. Nice sounding engine!

    AC did eventually buy into Buda for engines after they got into a dispute with Detroit. You could actually get either one for a while in certain models. Most of the AC engines were take-offs from Buda designs and I always found that they ran exceptionally well. They were also easy to work on and quite rebuildable.

    HD4, 5, and 6 were pretty good little tractors. But like someone else said here, I'd hate to make a steady living with one today. The JD 450 would be a much better purchase all things being equal. Parts availability and service much better. Still 6500 bucks ain't bad.

    An HD5 with Detroit just sold this month at Ritchie auction in Canada for 4500Canadian. Another went for 6000 US in California in December 06. Deere 450C still going for 12-16000 at auction. Last made in 1982. 450J going for 50-60000 and 450H still around 40-50000 for a decent one. An International TD8G went for 25000 Canadian last May at Ritchies.

    Too bad about Allis Chalmers, they were a fine old line manufacturer. I worked for a dealer of the equipment in the early seventies in Florida and met a lot of the factory guys. They were really crushed when AC sold out to Fiat and most of them were old enough and had worked long enough to take retirement, and they did. The company lost it's heart and soul when those guys bailed out. Fiat of course, promptly ran what was left of the company into the ground.

    Good Luck!
     
  13. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Get yourself either a 350 or 450 C or D.Have run these forever,trust me--way more dependable and will do more than AC.I would only consider AC if you could steal it for say farm use or as a third string rig.
     
  14. lpnt65

    lpnt65 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I was Cranky when Fiat took over AC too because AC were good machines in their day
    Buda motors were in the earlier AC, The Ts m360 Scraper had Buda motors Lter had Different motors The Ac 21EP had alliss motors I seem to recal it was a 2100 series aliss motor the fiat alliss had Fiat motors these were a reliable motors too
    I did ahve all ther Alliss Chalmer specs but my wife said YOU DON'T NEED THIS OLD JUNCk Throw it out Well i Cannot find any of it ,:Banghead
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  15. stinkycat

    stinkycat Well-Known Member

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    retired, disabled vet
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    I doubt that this thread is still alive, but the BUDA engine the US Navy used Were called Navy Standard Engines I don't think the Buda Engine company would build junk like that, they were awful. Spent way to much time keeping them running, parts were hard to get.
     
  16. Budaboy

    Budaboy Member

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    I have owned my HD6 for almost 25 years. I Use it on my 5 acres. Have had to do some clutch and brake work, and front hydraulic pump seals and 2 belts. The engine-a Buda 344 has run trouble free all these years. I sure love the ole girl!
     

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  17. CAT D7 man

    CAT D7 man Member

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    Ran one on a muncipality sewerline job, clearing right-of-way and backfilling. Really loved that little tractor. it was completely trouble free. The HD6 is the BEST (not the fastest...but the best... in my opinion) of the little dozers. If I could find a smoothly running HD6 with decent tracks for $6500, I'd snap it up...wouldn't even try to bargain him down.
     
  18. lpnt65

    lpnt65 Well-Known Member

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    hi Deas Plant My brothers in New Zealand had Alliss Chalmers Hd 21 it had operated 25000hours and never had any work on any part of drivetrain The Engine was o/hauled at 12000-hours they pulled it down at 25000hrs it was as good as day it was assembled they renewed seals and put it back together and its still going The Fiat Alliss FD31 was a great unit they had cummins moto They put in some big hours in North Queenskland Mines One mine Manager told me it cost less to purchase and was more ecnomical , and when they did overhaul was 1/3 of cost to overhaul Cat the same size it had also worked more hours before o/haul he was impressed i reckon the Fiat Aliss range of equipment where well made but the Fiat part stuffed it up as they were not good Marketers
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  19. Scott Swanson

    Scott Swanson New Member

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    HD6 for sale

    Mr. CAT D7 man; I have a HD6 for sale and it is in great shape. I don't know if you are still interested in purchasing one - but respond if this is of interest and I will send photos and some information. My father passed away in 2006 after completely going thru it; it has less than 200 hours on an overhaul of the Detroit diesel motor in it. It has been stored indoors. Scott Swanson, East Central MN.
     
  20. Budaboy

    Budaboy Member

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    Hd5's were the Detroit 2 cycle dozers up to 1955 and the HD6's were a 4 cycle 344 Ci Diesel Buda engine 1955 up through the middle 60's.