Advice on purchase of a loader for loading sand in dumptrucks

[handtpipeline]

We are in the process of starting in a new venture. We have the opportunity to start a sand plant type of operation. My background is mainly in pipeline, utilities, and general excavation. We have a dirt pit we started about a year ago also.

In the dirt pit, we just use an excavator to load the dirt into the trucks. Currently we are using our PC200LC8. Dirt sales are slow right now, so I'm about to move a Case 125B that I have into the dirt pit, to free up the 200 for other uses.

The sand plant we are working on getting going, we plan to excavate the sand with an excavator mainly. I have a Link Belt LS78 pipeliner dragline that I may use to dig sand some with. We don't need to dredge, as we have a large area we can get sand from when the river is at normal to low elevation, and whenever the river gets up, it will re-plenish where we have excavated already.

This is where the rubber tired loader comes in. We have access to an area about half a mile away, where we can stockpile the sand and load it from. It would be nice to be able to just load it out from where we dig it, but a lot of trucks don't get around on sand very well, and understandably a lot of owners of dumptrucks won't want to get their trucks in sand. So we plan on using our own trucks to move the sand to the stockpile area, and load most if not all of the customer trucks there with a wheel loader.

So, after a round about way of describing what I'm doing, any suggestions? I've been on a Cat IT28 just a little bit a couple of times. Loaded, hauled and unloaded both a Ford and International (both really old machines), and that is about the extent of my loader experience.

I would like a IT type of machine, just for the fact that I could use it for other uses (Utility jobs, handling pipe and such), but at the same time, probably not such a good idea since we'll hopefully have it tied up loading sand...

What size machine should I be looking for? Mainly loading tandem dump trucks, sometimes end dumps.

Brand Preferance? I run Case backhoes, Komatsu excavators and dozers, Like Cat equipment generally, just don't have much Cat. Deere... I've liked some Deere equipment i've been on, don't really care for the local Deere dealer though...

I want something in good shape, that parts are easily available for. Not interested in NEW at this time, but want a good value in a reasonably modern piece of equipment. Just can't bite off a payment on a new one right now, trying to get this going. We know where we can get a 450 Hitachi hoe for a pretty good price to work the pit, and will probably have the 200 there for a while anyway getting started.

Thanks for any insight into this situation.

 

[Deereman]

Well if you are wanting an IT or TC machine I would try out a TC54H or TC62H.(or an early model 544J/624J with tool carrier) Those machines have been out a while and have the hours to get into a comfortable price range. I've been on both and prefer the TC62H/624JTC. To me its always better to have just a little more machine then whats needed. That way everyone feels good about running it(power and not being tipsy) and it will last longer. Also if you do move it to one of the pipe crews they do really good with their diff locks in mud carrying what not to the excavator.

 

[handtpipeline]

According to the Ritchiespecs, the TC62H capacity is 3.5cy heaped. Is that about right? If that's the case, 3 buckets would pretty much fill a tandem dumptruck (10yds).

I don't really have to have a tool carrier right now, we've gotten along for years using a 580 case with bucket forks on the utility jobs. We don't do any really large jobs, and most of what pipe we lay is plastic. I do intend to someday get into the bigger stuff, wouldn't mind getting into pipeline work again. I grew up doing that (quite literally, my dad started my company the same year I was born). I still have all my old pipeline equipment so it's always an option. Right now, we're a pretty small operation, my pardner and myself who are actual operators, a guy that's worked for us about 4 years now that started as a laborer and is learning to run some equipment. He's gotten pretty proficient on the loader on a backhoe, can dig with backhoe and excavator, just isn't real fast yet. Then we have 1 full time and 1 part time dumptruck drivers. Our plan is to focus on getting the sand plant and dirt pit going smoothly, then I'll start bidding on some utilities again.

Thank you for your suggestions. A Deere machine would probably be the best choice, the Deere dealership is within probably a mile of where this machine would be working. Any minor breakdowns could probably be quickly fixed by not having to run clear across town chasing parts... The dealership has changed ownership since I've had what I would call "bad" relationship with them, so might be worth a try.

 

[Deereman]

That sounds right but a 3.cy bucket is also common on them. And yes, some times you just have to use what you have to get by to the better times. But I sure do love a TC over a backhoe when we started carrying manholes and risers and the bigger stuff. Some of that concrete stuff will make you eat the seat in a backhoe. The ol 310D did it but was fun to say the least at times. Sounds like you need some help running and laboring=-)

 

[handtpipeline]

The utiltiy job I just got done on, I laid about 900' of 8" ductile sewer line with 2 backhoes. Did all the digging, pipelaying and setting manholes with my 580SM (4x4, cab, extendahoe, ride control and pilot controls), carried pipe, manholes and bedded ditch with 580M. Right along a street, had to strip out and move to the side a fiber optic cable most of the way. Deepest part was 9 1/2' deep, I just benched it out, no way could I pull a 20' box with the backhoe... Just didn't have the room for a real hoe. Probably could have used a zero swing machine, but my options were a PC200 or a PC300... The manhole bases were all the Super M wanted. I didn't run out of lifting power, but ran out of weight on the front end. A couple of them, we sat the front bucket of the other backhoe on top of my front bucket... Should have took the Mack down there and rigged the gin poles up on it...

 

[Juice]

working in sand

I've got a sand quarry in a river, like what I think you have. I run a Cat 315 digger to dig it out, and a cat 930 to load it into my truck, when I'm on good dry sand.
The loader you really need is one with diff lock. Dry sand is ok, once it's compacted. But don't try and dig out anywhere near wet sand.
Without the diff lock, a loader will just bounce and bog down.
To be honest the best way to work sand is compact it with a machine, then lay a bed of loam/topsoil down and compact again. Then you can drive your normal on-road truck on it without getting bogged. Then load the truck directly from your digger to your stockpile to dry, load out from there.
Unless your just loading out from a stockpile on a hard surface then any decent cat will do the job nicely. Hitachi do a good medium sized machine with diff locks, reasonably priced.
Good Luck!

 

[Magnum]

Have you consider a Volvo?
Volvo loaders are by far the most versatile with their TP-linkage. The TP-linkage is superior to any other linkage when it comes to paralell movement and at the same time high break-out force over the entire lifting range which means that they works excellent in all types of applications. If you compare to Cat for example the z-bar only good with a bucket and totally useless with palletforks and the tool carrier linkage is not so good in bucket operations but good with pallet forks. Volvo only needs one linkage because of the TP-linkage also the Volvo quick coupler is at least here in Eu known as more or less the branch standard.
I would suggest Volvo L110F or L120F, comparable with IT62H. Of course Volvo has 100% dog clutch diff lock on the front axle.
Also consider the tires, 65-series tires might be useful, they give better floatation if the underfoot condidtions are really soft but they might give you higher fuel consumption. You do not want to have to aggressive tire tread, almost worn out tires gives the best performance in sand. And a bucket with long floor is also a recommendation, it will be much easier to fill if you are working on soft underfoot conditions.

 

[Zeke]

Have a look at the Kawasaki line also.VERY heavily/sturdily built,excellent cab,tons of Cummins power & excellent lift.If you don't need the tool carrier version,have a peek at the 80ZV-2(tier 3),or a little smaller...70ZV-2.Great units from the originator of the wheeled articulated loader manufacturer.http://www.kawasakiloaders.com

 

[>HevyIndsMFGng<]

Cool info, but Kawasaki definitely wasn't the originator of wheeled articulated loaders. Wheel loaders really got their start in England, then the designs were redefined in the US between companies that helped Allis Chalmers and Caterpillar get their start into wheel loaders and a company out of Oregon pioneered the articulating frame design with their Scoopmobile LD-5 in 1953. Don't get me wrong, Kawasaki makes some incredibly good wheel loaders right now, but they weren't the pioneers.

Sorry about the off tangent subject there, I just wanted to clear a few things up. But please continue with the original thread. I like Deere and Volvo loaders a lot for a variety of reasons. Deere loaders are very well engineered, they are built to last and have good parts avaliability. In addition to that, their fuel consumption is better than Cats and Deere machines have smooth efficient power. It also helps that you're near a Deere dealer too. I really like Volvo wheel loaders a lot too because they are an efficient machine at lower cost. Volvo's have the TP linkage, which was already well explained, they have great fuel economy, very smooth power, lower cost as opposed to a Cat or a Deere, pretty good parts avaliability, world-class operator comfort, and they are pretty well engineered as well.

 

[alan627b]

I ran a Volvo L90 loader at a salvage yard I worked at last winter. I was pretty impressed with the working of the machine, the only thing I can add to consider is this.
When something did break on it it seems Volvo is prouder of their new parts than even Cat is! Add to that it had 40 volt electronics in parts of it making the replacements pretty much Volvo only in the electrical system. Just something to consider before you purchase. A somewhat older machine with fewer electronics means you won't be held hostage by the service department when repairs are needed.
With as much used iron as there is on the market right now looking on Ironplanet, Machinerytrader or My Little Salesman, either print or on the net, should help you find what you need.
Good luck in the hunt. Don't be shy about posting some pics when you find the goodie!

Alan

 

[brieneqservices]

I would personally go with the L90 series volvo loaders. They are tough and easy to work on and durable.