Advice for my first big job

[norite]

Rent a bobcat with a trencher

Welcome to hef paxtonj, this is a great continuing thread and I recommend you go back to the beginning and start reading it from there. It is not so much about seeking advice, instead just letting us know the trials and tribulations that OldandWorn is going through completing his project, with lots of great pics along the way.

 

[OldandWorn]

Secondary done! That's it for the power conduits but I still have that 30' of phone to do.

All of the conduits are bedded with at least a foot of fill on top of them but once again I'm getting way behind on completing the backfill. There has been a heavy rain almost every week and I got tired of digging the end of the conduits out of the silt and working in a wet muddy trench thus the push to get all of the conduit done. 3' deep 12" wide trenches really suck and I wish I would have bought an 18" bucket instead of using what I had.

I must say that I haven't damaged any conduits or had to saw any mistakes off during this project so I'm pretty happy about that.

 

[Gooseidi]

That's good news. I still remember reading your whole thread and seeing the good advice you got here, it really made me realize what a good forum this is. Once again, your work is top notch, I'd work that conduit system any time. Congrats on a great job!!

 

[OldandWorn]

Oh....I couldn't figure out for a while why only my right boot was filling up with dirt and little sharp rocks. Ripped a hole on a tree root. Gotta love that duct tape! :drinkup

 

[OldandWorn]

That's good news. I still remember reading your whole thread and seeing the good advice you got here, it really made me realize what a good forum this is. Once again, your work is top notch, I'd work that conduit system any time. Congrats on a great job!!

Hey, thanks for the compliment. I will post some pics of the meter and load center install too. Just one receptacle next to the box to speed up calling for inspection. I'm not sure if it's required but it seems dumb not having at least one.

 

[CM1995]

There has been a heavy rain almost every week and I got tired of digging the end of the conduits out of the silt and working in a wet muddy trench thus the push to get all of the conduit done.

A little trick, take a stick of conduit and lay it crossways over the trench, then rest the conduits in the ditch on it. Tape the ends up or plug them to keep rain water out and when you start laying conduit again you don't have to get in the ditch. Also place your spoils a little farther away from the ditch, it makes it easier using this method.

Last week I dug a section of primary for the electricians on a Taco Bell we are doing the site work on. I needed a mini to dig part of the rain leaders and didn't want to drag mine 50 miles for a short section. A little wheelin' and dealin' with the electricians that had a mini and we both finished early.

 

[OldandWorn]

Sweet deal on the mini CM. I tried doing as you mentioned but it ended up being more of a hassle because I had to hand work the area under the conduit. Then there was the upward angle where the conduit exited the fill that I couldn’t get to and fix. I was told by the utility that these were difficult pulls and to make sure the conduit was as flat as possible so these little humps bothered me. Leaving the conduit in the bottom allowed me to skim the muck out of the trench in front of the conduit using the hoe with just some hand digging to expose the end of the conduit. Plus the conduit was nice and flat and not angled up.

I couldn’t glue the 20’ sticks by myself unless they were level with the previous section and the bottom of the trench was the only flat spot. So I still had to do get in the trench and do this part of the work anyway. On the days that I had help we did glue outside the trench except when I used the 24” wide bucket.

The main reason I placed the spoil piles next to the trench is the need to bed by hand because of the horrible rocky fill. It doesn’t take much effort to slide the dirt in and leave the big rocks behind. I once tried to place the piles farther away and it was a labor intensive nightmare just having to drag the dirt that little extra distance.

 

[OldandWorn]

We had a huge storm roll through late in the week but I was still able to get some work done. I left the last bit of conduit un-bedded in case I had to make some adjustments after the meter socket was installed and it turned out to be a very good idea. The ridges on the wall were a pain to deal with and I didn’t account for the stupid worthless clamps they want on the riser conduit. The original spot that I picked would have left one of the clamp mounting holes right on top of a ridge so I had to slide the riser over to the extreme left of the trench to make everything line up. The trench at this spot was a gooey mess so I bedded the last part with gravel.









I removed the water out of the trench with the hoe bucket but 2 days later it still looked like this so I still wasn’t able to place my post and complete the phone conduit. I did add another 20’ stick which got me right to the edge of the muck and used the rest of my time to do some backfilling in front of the barn.









Why can’t I leave well enough alone? I had a nice level base for the transformer box but thought it was a good idea to double check and make sure the gravel was tamped well with the hoe bucket. To my surprise, the base felt like it was sitting on top of Jello and was pumping all over the place. The top of the conduits were all level and now they are at different heights with one about 3” higher then it originally was. The transformer base is at the lowest point and with the trenches still open I guess it was channeling all of the water to the soil under the base. I’m not going to mess with it again until all of the trenches are backfilled but I don’t know what to do about the shift in the conduit height. Do I try and push them back down with the hoe bucket or cut off the excess height? They were at the maximum height before so I have to do one or the other. Maybe I should have tried to push it back down while the soil is still Jello like?

 

[OldandWorn]

Huge rain but I worked Friday and up till 3 on Saturday afternoon before the deluge hit. The area for my phone pedestal was pumping like crazy but it was holding me up and I got it done anyway.

I’m not the most creative person and sometimes I have to see things for an idea to click. I originally wasn’t going to run a phone line to the barn because I didn’t feel it was worth the extra work of digging an intersecting trench to meet up with the power trench. I saw how close together they were up by the transformer and a little work with a mattock made the connection. I didn’t use any conduit and drilled a hole in the main feeder sweep. I had some cut lengths of 2” conduit with no bells so I decided to use them up as sheathing around the phone wire in the main trench leading to the barn.

I also got enough backfilling done and the transformer box placed so that future wet weather shouldn’t hold me up anymore.

 

[oceanobob]

Does your pic of the phone wire show direct burial? For some reason I was thinking "all wire" was to be in conduit due to underground tunnel type creatures gnawing on the line like it was a root or something.... There is that one pic with the U turn half circle where the phone cable is in the bottom of the trench and then the drilled hole in the sweep to get into the riser....

On 9/15 you mentioned thinking about 'pushing down on the end of the conduit riser' to 'bring it back to even ht' and the jello backill.....did you leave well enough alone?

Thanks again for taking the time to report on your progress....

 

[OldandWorn]

It is direct burial Bob. It could be gnawed but I haven't seen any evidence of burrowing critters as of yet. It was just a small additional perk when I saw that I could install it easily. In the future I have plans for some more trenching that will cross the secondary trench so the sleeving will hopefully be easier to spot than just a small black wire.

Yeah, I tried to give it a push but it was rock solid because the base was not pumping anymore so I had to cut the conduit off. I think it would have easily pushed back down last week but I didn't want to try it without asking first. Next week I should have the base completely backfilled and I want to put a piece of plywood or something on top to prevent it from filling with water.

 

[OldandWorn]

It could be gnawed but I haven't seen any evidence of burrowing critters as of yet.

Actually that's not true. I just remembered seeing a mole while backfilling.

 

[OldandWorn]

Airhead trench guy was gonna place one of the ground rods in the trench to get an easy 4' head start but he forgot. Oh well, the first 4' 3" went in like butter and then I hit a rock, or maybe the conduit. After lots and lots of beating it finally started moving again but the rest was tough going although always moving with each hit. Then it gets about 3" from being flush with the ground and it stopped hard this time.:Banghead 15 more minutes of beating and it finally takes off and I got it about 4" below the surface. I could have brought the Sawzall up to take care of the last few inches but a hassle trying to cut it below the surface and the fake mushroom would have looked really lame.





Notice the concrete support pillar behind the sweep. I had to get close to make everything fit on the wall. It looks undermined in the pic but it's not.





Just some temporary blocking to hold the conduit in the correct location while backfilling.

 

[oceanobob]

Do you drive the ground (earthing) rod with a sledge hammer?
Once we learned we could use an attachment for the roto hammer (and yes, we first shift it into 'percussion only' mode LOL), these rods are much easier to place.

 

[OldandWorn]

I was going to look into renting a hammer. The plan was to just place it in the trench and drive it the rest of the way in when I installed the other rod. I think it got my curiosity up when it hit something just below the trench depth and ended up sledging it to see what was down there.

 

[jhoncho4x4]

Wow that was a lot of reading, finally caught up!!! Great thread!!! Thanks for taking the time to write it and post pics. :thumbsup

 

[OldandWorn]

Wow that was a lot of reading, finally caught up!!! Great thread!!! Thanks for taking the time to write it and post pics. :thumbsup

Hey thanks and welcome to this great forum.

 

[OldandWorn]

Any other hoarders out there? If I ever decide to finish out the barn I stuffed in some 30 year old insulation I had squirreled away. This is the first time I have worked in the barn after dark and it was spooky. With the generator running and only the workspace lit up your early warning senses are pretty much out the window.

When I was placing the top row of insulation I had what could have been a serious accident with no help around. Standing on top of a 3' step ladder, the next thing I knew I was laying flat on my back with no way to ease the fall when the ladder kicked over. I landed on top of a live electrical outlet box so hard that it split the receptacles in half. At first I thought I had broke my back or damaged a kidney but I'm still kicking. Installing the heavy plywood and trying to bend that big wire the next day was no fun at all.

 

[oceanobob]

Q1. Curious: we use 3' ladders for a lot of things ... any idea why it kicked out?

Q2 Hey, thanks for showing the pics of the connections. Do you regularly use the No Ox? I completely disassemble the bus works, lugs, connectors etc, coat all with the NoOx, then reassemble. Regardless of copper or aluminum wire.

Reason: after some time, the threads on the connections begin to freeze up, etc. The ones with the No Ox always have threads in good workable condition.

Q3 On the subpanel, looks like the Grounding Conductor (nicknamed Green wire or Ground Wire) has yet to be run?

FYI 'a' I figure that breaker panel is a service entrance panel with the meter set on the other side of the wall? On the southern west coast (SoCal) we use a lot of combination meter, main, and breaker. I guess it is all about the weather (or lack of it)!
FYI 'b' The use of the yellow pull rope around these parts is taboo, must be the flat woven polyester pull tape. "Rumor has it" the pull tape won't cut the conduit like the yellow rope. Haven't seen yellow rope in a long long time, all remnants having been used up and discarded quite a while back.

 

[OldandWorn]

Q1. Curious: we use 3' ladders for a lot of things ... any idea why it kicked out?

Q2 Hey, thanks for showing the pics of the connections. Do you regularly use the No Ox? I completely disassemble the bus works, lugs, connectors etc, coat all with the NoOx, then reassemble. Regardless of copper or aluminum wire.

Reason: after some time, the threads on the connections begin to freeze up, etc. The ones with the No Ox always have threads in good workable condition.

Q3 On the subpanel, looks like the Grounding Conductor (nicknamed Green wire or Ground Wire) has yet to be run?

FYI 'a' I figure that breaker panel is a service entrance panel with the meter set on the other side of the wall? On the southern west coast (SoCal) we use a lot of combination meter, main, and breaker. I guess it is all about the weather (or lack of it)!
FYI 'b' The use of the yellow pull rope around these parts is taboo, must be the flat woven polyester pull tape. "Rumor has it" the pull tape won't cut the conduit like the yellow rope. Haven't seen yellow rope in a long long time, all remnants having been used up and discarded quite a while back.

Hi Bob, There is pretty coarse gravel on the floor and my best guess is that a main weight bearing leg slipped off the top of a large rock when my weight shifted. I normally shift the ladder back and forth a little to plant the legs firmly but maybe I forgot because I was in a hurry and uncomfortable working in the dark.

This is the second panel I have installed and the first one was 30 years ago in my home and I can't remember. I did use Noalox on this installation and also put it on the threads. The torque specs were fairly high at 18 and 21 and I wonder if putting it on the threads causes the connections to be over torqued?

This is actually a main panel so it doesn't get the fourth equipment ground wire. I do still have to install the ground rod system (GEC) but I didn't want to be beating on a ground rod with my back aching like it was.

I actually wanted to use a meter main and I searched every manufacturer but none provided exactly what I wanted and the utility required. It would have been nice for the trailer feed, well pump, and extending the service to a future barn close by.

I installed what the utility wanted which was 1/4" poly. They will use my rope to pull in their flat rope. I can still see the poly burning through the sweeps but maybe they have a protective sleeve that they slide down into my sweeps? I hope to be there and maybe take some pics.